The Studio Hang: A Conversation with Omar Zehery of Rustgaze Records

November 11, 2023

In this episode of "The Music Business Mentorship," host John Sheil, music lawyer, musician, and sound engineer, hosts an intimate conversation with Omar Zehery, recording artist, and studio producer behind Rustgaze Records. Formerly a member of the widely recognized band "Hit the Lights," Omar has redirected his passion towards nurturing and developing talent in his hometown of Lima, Ohio. Rustgaze Records has become a hub for aspiring musicians, thanks to Omar's dedication and expertise. Prepare yourself for an in-depth interview as John delves into Omar's fascinating journey. Together, they explore the challenges, triumphs, and valuable insights Omar has gained throughout his career. Drawing from personal experiences and professional knowledge, Omar shares the secrets of navigating the music industry, cultivating meaningful relationships, and discovering one's unique sound. He emphasizes the significance of community support, the power of collaboration, and the transformative role of mentorship in shaping the next generation of musicians. Whether you're an aspiring artist, a music industry professional, or an avid music lover, "The Studio Hang" offers a rare opportunity to gain profound insights from Omar Zehery. Prepare to be inspired as John guides you through an engaging discussion about the intersection of artistry, mentorship, and the limitless potential of the music industry. Join us for this enlightening episode of "The Music Business Mentorship" as we embark on "The Studio Hang" with Omar Zehery. Immerse yourself in the world of music, and discover the transformative influence of a true mentor and visionary.

Episode Transcript

Audio file
20231109_MBM_Podcast_EP1_OmarZehery_1AMusic Bus.mp3

Transcript
Well, ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the music business mentorship. We're here with my very good friend Omar Zahiri from Rust Gaze Records in Lima. OH, and we're going to talk about a bunch of things today. But first of all, let me just start off by saying thank you. Omar for being here. Taking time out of your busy schedule and talking to us about your music business. Why don't we just start off with telling me who you are? Tell everybody what you do and and how you got started.
Yeah, man. Well, First off, thank you. Thank you for having me on here. And uh, you know, thank you for just right off the bat. Thank you for your help for the last few years and just kind of I think a cool way of getting this kicked off is maybe talking. But you know not to put you on the spot or like, embarrass you about how gracious you were the first time we met. And, you know, just getting a cold call out of the blue. But I remember finding out about you like on social media a. You know mutual friend was like I need a.
Lawyer like you're like.
What's up? Like getting like in the comments and I'm like, well, that's cool. Like, you know, this dude seems pretty legit. And I remember checking out your stuff and.
I was like.
Wait, this? You know this gentleman's an attorney? He is a musician. He's a sound guy. He's a light dude, and he's involved in like non profit like stuff for like all of the arts.
I was like what?
The heck. Like where, where? Have you been all of our?
Lives kind of thing and took a a nice drive down from Lima to Cincinnati and you hung out. I remember having my little Bluetooth speaker. And I was like, playing your songs. I was like, now listen to this one, man. Now listen to this one. And you're very gracious and cool about your time and, you know, just been given some great advice to us ever since. So I just wanted to thank you and. You know, say it's it's it's been really cool hanging out.
Dude, it's it's totally my pleasure. I really, I can't stress that enough. I mean, you bring a lot to the table, man. You, you've got a lot of creative ideas. You're working with great people. You've got great energy. There's really something special that's happening there in that studio and and everything you've got. Going on with from the. Block parties to the collaboration you've got. With with the comic book store up front and everything, I mean it's it's a scene that I want to be a part of. I just wish we were a. Little bit. Closer together, you know.
Yeah. Yeah, man, yeah, we'll we'll get there. We'll get there. We can. Uh, I feel like transportation. Like, was it? Teleportation is like, right, like around the corner. So yeah, we can kind of bridge that gap and make Lima in Cincinnati more sister cities than you know, than they are.
I mean, they should be. They really. They really should be.
Well, I'll tell you, man. Cincinnati was like one of the first big cities that like me and my buddies, started going to for shows. And like I would steal my mom's car and be like, hey, I'm going into Dave's house. And you met Dave outside the door, right? I'd be like, I'm just gonna go over to Dave's house and, you know, then we would go to bogarts. And then, like, you know, the car would get.
Yeah, I did.
Mean, yeah. Towed and have to call my mom and like.
Ohh man, I'm not at Daves house.
I'm in Cincinnati with your car and it's towed.
I'm sorry, but no, that was Cincinnati has always been like a very important town for us and, you know, Lima. But they're they're really. Hasn't there wasn't much going on when I was a kid, you know? And I think that all of this kind of stems from that where it's like. I can't wait to meet people that are into the same freaky stuff that I'm into that like, you know, like we can hang and and make stuff that like we all really kind of believe in and you know, that's. Kind of what the philosophy was growing up was like, I can't wait to get the hell out. Of here you know. Was lucky to kind of get out and realize that home is what you make it. And you know all the things that I used to look at this area for as being like detrimental to what I wanted to do. Like, I realize like now this is like an opportunity because there are people that are into the, you know, weird stuff that we're into and nerding out like, you know, and the type of stuff that we're nerding out, you just kind of have to find them and. Yeah, it's been really cool. Just you know. Kind of. Creating something with people that you know. Believe in the same things. That we do. Uh.
Well, how did you get started in your in your musical journey? I mean, I I can totally identify. First of all with the wanting to get out of here. I mean, Cincinnati, when you're a kid, feels like it's it's the the biggest small town and you just want to run to the big city. But. Then you get to New York or LA and you're like, holy crap, I I can't play that many gigs this in a weekend. It's it takes an hour to get anywhere. Like, I can't. I just can't do what I can do in my hometown. And yeah, so. And and it's it's just funny that Lima is like on that two hour radius where I tell people all the time to create, you know, an hour. To two hour. Strategy of building your fan base and and Lima's right there and you've got now a studio, a stage. Block parties. You've got all these collaborators. But how did all that kind of start for you? I mean, you were in a band and. And Dave, I think was in that. Band, right? Yeah.
Yeah, exactly. Like we got started young, you know, like meeting, finding our own, like in middle school and stuff. And like, you know, then playing music together through high school. UM. I was putting on shows in my parents basement. I met, you know, future bandmates by like dudes who were just like walking through my kitchen. Like kind of giving my parents the what's up like.
Yeah, and they're.
Like you know, those guys like? No, not. Really. Three years? That's cool.
But yeah, so that's kind of, you know, that's how it started and you know out of high school. Made the decision. You know, it's like, OK, I think that, you know, at this point, we kind of know what it would take to get up to like the next tier, which is just out of town. You know, like, that was our biggest goal. And formed this band with guys I grew up with and you know, it was kind of the intention was known early. It was like, alright, if we dedicate ourselves to this, then we can see this come through the other side and I mean this was now, you know like 20 years ago, which is a completely different beast than it is today. Because back then. You know. For us to build little pockets of fan bases across the US, you had to jump into van, and if you didn't have the representation, then you know it was like, OK, we're booking our own shows. We are releasing our own material. We are making our own merchandise, we are like. Managing ourselves and our. Everybody like knew what was going into it and it wasn't like one of us carrying the rest. It was like everybody firing all cylinders, quitting school, quitting work, you know, really just kind of unplugging from the lives that we had here, to jump in a van. And do that and you know we were. We were self booking maybe like nine months out of the year. You know with those other couple months, not like you know. A week here, a week there and you know, doing that for a few years.
Let let me just interrupt you real quick. So if our listeners are are checking out Omar's page and and everything you can actually check out hit the lights it's you can find them on Wikipedia. You can find them on. All the streaming services. You guys have let's I'm checking out how many records there's from 2006 to 2015, you were putting out stuff pretty regularly, looks like and EP's from 2004 all the way up. To 2018, looks like you put out a single in 2018. So hit the lights. Was the name of the.
Band, right? Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And. Yeah, man. It's like we just kind of, we knew that we were gonna have to dedicate ourselves to it. But also it's like this is. Like what we wanted, you know? So, I mean, like, touring down to Florida in the middle of summer in a van with no AC.
And you know.
No place to sleep. So, like Walmart, parking lots.
Like you know.
Really having like rely like on the kindness of strangers and like, you know, that kind of thing like, you know, I think that we all knew it's like OK this is this is what it takes to kind of get through like the other side and with kind of three years of that kind of really dedicated time. Spent to that, we started finding. Labels that we grew up listening and loving, like hitting us up and, you know, having conversations with these names on the backs of CD's that we've been looking at for years and stuff and putting faces to names like on, you know, CD jackets. And it was, it was really cool. Like getting to play with bands that you know, we grew up loving and like, you know, inspiring us and really being able to check off, you know, boxes of of goals that like, you know, we wanted to accomplish and just doing it out of this place called Lima. OH.
Like so.
We did that for a few years and you know the like. Is it summer of 69? Is that like the one that's? Like Bobby got married.
And like, you know, like talking about.
Yeah. Yeah. Right, right. Yeah. That's Ryan Adams. Yeah.
Right was that?
Bryan Adams. That's kind of how it happened. You know, like we, we had a good run and then you start getting older and like, you know, one of my favorite things in the whole time that we did hit. The lights was. The recording and hanging out and the creation and us getting in a room and, you know, loving a riff and turning that into like something that's like, OK, Now this is a song, you know, this is. Uh, so I was really appreciated. That thing we did some really cool like. Production hangs and Co rate hangs in LA with you know, again people that I never would have thought I'd be like in the room with like when I was a kid. And a lot of those people are like, hey, like you've got, like, these really great ideas. Like you should think about production. And in my head at that time, I was. Like I'm a road dog. You know what? I.
Mean like there's?
No, like I can't figure out what all those. Buttons on a.
Console does.
You know, I just play my guitar and write songs and, you know, like tour and. But that kind of gave me a goal, a target. And kind of shoot for. After you know. I was able to kind of have time to focus on that. So when the band started to slow down, I came back home to Lima, started bartending and through that started kind of being acquainted with the local music scene again. And you know, very based in bar bands and cover bands. But a lot of the, you know, the kids that were out there gigging those, uh, kind of cover bands and cover acts. And like we're also songwriters and. You know, would slip in their original tunes in between covers, and I'd ask him be like, you know, who is that? What is that? So I got something I. Wrote what are. You gonna do? With it, you know like and the most you know and everybody's like. Well, not, I don't know, just continue to play. It for people.
You know, like with their backs turned and.
You know, drinking. Beer and eating chicken wings over like the music that we're making. It's like, no, that's not. That's no.
Way to live. Ohh.
You know, that's kind of when. The vision kind of come and start coming together for, you know, this little room that I started developing with, you know, just. Really menial recording gear and the thing that I noticed about with like the people that I was meeting and booking was like, you know, how is it that you're doing this, you're writing this, you're writing this and you guys have never gotten in the same room. Like done it together. And it was real kind of like small potatoes type stuff that was just like local drama. That guy took my Thursday gig.
Type thing like you know.
It's like, Nah. Like, you got to think bigger and start using the studio as a space for these different musicians to kind of come in and collaborate and just right off the bat it was just kind of undeniable. And I kind of saw it just all come together because I was like, everybody knew about my. Passed in, you know, touring and traveling. And they're like, so when is it time for us to blow this popsicle stand? And that's like when it's like you don't, you know? Like you stay here. Develop your thing like you're obviously great at XY and Z, but maybe like there's some stuff that like you do need to work on, and let's figure out what that is together. So that when you know you go to a place like Nashville or New York or LA or even Cincinnati or Columbus, like there are people waiting for you, you know, like you've done the work, they knew who you are. For me too is kind of the selfish thing because I just like want it. You know, I didn't want these people. To leave like, you know like. And then like I realized, I was like, no, this is like a bigger problem. This is like brain drain. This is, you know. Realizing that different towns that are of our size that are, you know, at risk of losing bright young people are actually doing something about it. So that's kind of where this, you know intention shifted to kind of poking the finger in the chest of people that you know should be hanging on and nurturing. This kind of talent, you know, to like, create. An environment that people want to come to, you know, like when you Google Lima. OH, unfortunately the worst things come up. So like, if I'm talking to somebody in economic development or the Chamber of Commerce and like, well, how do you see this going? I'm like, flood the algorithm with young people doing awesome stuff. You know, like people of all ages, people of all, like, you know, like. When you do that, it's like you shift the the. This like mentality, and especially if you're trying to, you know, what's like the lingo that they use, like improve the quality of life and yada yada. Really, it's like they want young talent, you know, like young professional people to come and fill up these positions or whatever industries that we have here. But it's like, what's gonna really entice you about uprooting you and your family to come to Lima? OH, you know, like so that's, you know, where this thing kind of like we realize it's like, OK, this is like. More than just recording some songs, it's like this is, you know, being able to plant a flag in the. Ground for a place it. You know, hasn't had a lot of pride in itself. For years, like a lot of Midwestern towns that are kind of living that same thing but other places, our size and smaller are figuring out how to do it, you know, so it's like if we're catching up now, then we're already behind. So what are you going to do about it? Because this is what I'm doing.
You know, like I'm.
Providing nonprofit creative development for these area artists that like really have a chance of, you know. Not only being able to make a living off their creativity, but like plant a flag in the ground for this area. So that's, you know, really like we're lucky to know the people that we know because they're the ones that like. Make it easy to do the work you know, because it doesn't feel like work. I know that you know that, right? It's like when you're. Hanging out with. Somebody. It's like we're we're accomplishing things. We're being like, you know, very efficient. And we're doing something special. But like, because we're doing it out of, like, love and respect, it's like, you know, we're just hanging.
Out and doing ********. So. So that's.
You know, in a nutshell, that's.
What we've been doing in Lima is.
Hanging out with cool people developing stuff, you know the studio. Turned into. You know we. All of a sudden we had like a collective of people and they, you know, are hanging out on each other, stuff through mutual loves and like, respect building things. And we just had this, like, undeniable pile of songs. It's like, now what you know, and it's like, well, like, let's start a record label. You know, we've been throwing shows we've been. You know, promoting these artists in this like local and regional set. Is really shifting their perception of what homegrown art is in an area like this changing people's perceptions? You know, like putting music up front instead of in the background, putting it on in such like a small room that you can't deny, you know, like this thing in front of you. And when you see that. It's like, you know, this weird feedback loop of excitement, because the crowd feeds the music and like the musicians, and then the musicians play better and like they get the crowd more excited. And it's like stuff that was so natural for me that, you know, that just people weren't experiencing here. So we were able to do that and it's like, well, let's take this party as far as it can go. So I started Rush Day's records and. Have been just kind of chugging along, putting out records, you know, just figuring it out one step at a time. And that's kind of where we are, right?
Now let me tell our our listeners. When I met Omar, the record, the, the studio was actually. Really, upstairs in the back of a building that really the upstairs hadn't been used for much in quite a while. The bottom part of it had kind of a coffee shop and Co working space and the owner of the building was trying to foster coworking and all sorts of stuff. So it was sort of a perfect synergy for you. To kind of get started. But you were already in talks with the folks who own the legacy arts building and their comic book. Shop and they had big dreams for for the use of the space and you were already starting to throw shows in the back of their space and now you've got kind of a full time studio in the building. There's a comic book shop up front. There's a little bar. There's a a nice little area for a show a a nice stage in the back. There's a park along the side of the building and it's it's kind of like right in the heart of downtown Lima. So and and you throw a street party that that encompasses all of this stuff. So real amazing synergy I I want to know like what what has been the feedback from the civic leaders and the community as to everything that you're doing, cause you're a linchpin of all of this creative entrepreneurship?
Yeah, man, no, we're, I mean, we're lucky to have the partners that we do that kind of, you know, believe in the in the same kind of crazy stuff that you know that we really believe in and. You know, again, it's about changing perception in a town like this. So you know, there are people that like, listen kind of suspiciously, you know, and they're just kind of, you know, head tilted kind of thing like, you know, like, I don't know exactly if I understand, but like and then there are people that are like hell. Yes, like. Know exactly where we're coming from. And you know that's really. The support that's LED us to continue has been more from like the public than like the civic leaders that are there.
You know like.
There are some, like I said, there are some people that get it and then there are some that I feel that. Are just kind of bidding their time until you know what I.
Mean upholding some status quo.
Until they're out, you know? And like, you know, our hope is that whoever comes in next, you know, is willing to pay attention. Who? Going to, you know, hang with some ideas that they wouldn't necessarily like, you know, think of themselves or think as being like, you know, something worth trying out. But for us, it's like I said, it's the partners that we have, it's, you know, we've got great partners. Uh, you know or Lionel? Memorial Civic Center here in town. That saw it. Early on and was like, what can we do to help? And as you know, that's like. Gold to somebody.
That's like feeling like they're like.
Treading water or like you know what I mean, like fighting this uphill battle. Same thing with art space Lima and Greater Council. Our Council, the arts greater. I'm a our partners here at Legacy Arts the same way. Like you mentioned, the fact that the studio was in this abandoned office space, right and is above this coffee shop. And I don't even think that they knew exactly what we were doing up there.
Like, you know, like. There's probably like a few months until.
Like I was like hey. Do you want to come check? Out the space and they're like ohh like this. Is what's going on up.
Here so that.
Trust, you know, from from business owners here in this town. That has extra space that aren't doing stuff. With it, that's the type of thing that, like, we're trying to cultivate with, you know, legacy arts and legacy arts building and this collective of like minded people, you know, being able to pull their resources and their love for art and music and cool things to happen, you know, like. So I really see this as being, you know, a beacon, some kind of magnet that's, you know, here to drawing people that are just as weird as we.
Are the same stuff, so.
But yeah, Mark and Angie Boker that own this building and they have alter ego comics. They were some of those people early on. It's like, you know you, you know. What's going on? What are you doing? You know, like what? Like how are you gonna grow this? And there were some of the first people that I could be like. What's a Business plan and how?
Do you like? How do you do an Excel? Sheet, you know like.
So they were always very supportive of it. And you know, just kind of everything. Thing fell into place for us to be able to have this over here and you know, it wouldn't have started without putting together this little like PDF document of what things could look like. You know, like this packet of information that was just growing and growing and showing people. And my wife and I like we love. Going out of town, seeing places. You know where it was, you know, the similar kind of like teamwork in a culture that we appreciate and being like, why can't we have that in Lima, you know, like. There's no reason like that. You know, we just can't do it ourselves and find people that want to. Do it with us so. We're really lucky for that.
And tell me about your logo, because I I really think it's awesome. It's in the background of your. Screen there so. I can kind of see and it looks like Ohio across the top, but when you first described it to me, I was like, oh, that's genius. So what? What? What prompted that?
This I was. I was on tour with, hit the lights and we were in the UK and it was after a show and we're hanging out at a pub and I'm chatting with this guy that's like talking about. You know the reason why some of the best music in the world comes. Out of England and like the UK, is because it's so damn like Gray and dreary and like industrial.
And like you know.
And he's like, of course, you know, like that's, you know, inspiration and you know, it's like comes from the environment. So Sabbath and Birmingham and like The Smiths from Manchester like, you know nodding him or like whatever. He's like, you know, mentioning like Liverpool and like The Beatles. And I've got me thinking. Because that was like. You know, this realization of like, yeah, it's like true. It's like, you know, your environment really. Can shape your creativity and I was always like wondering how was it that like. These people from this area were like had this thing that was just like this charged creativity, you know? And it's like, that's what it is, you know, it's like, you know, we're kind of all looking at. It in Lima, it doesn't matter like where you are. You could be like the prettiest part of town. And like the refinery is like, you know, this flame, that's kind of like the watchful Eye of God, you know.
It's not wrong.
Yeah, yeah, like everywhere that you go is just kind of like there, like reminding you. And it's like, yeah, so it's like.
You know, it's like it take, like on shoe gaze, but it's like, you know, we're just gazing at.
All these things rusting around us, but it's.
Like taking responsibility for it. And like you know, really like. You know, acknowledging the fact that that's that's where this grit comes from and this, this honesty and this genuineness that I feel goes into, you know. A lot of people's brains and eyes subconsciously, but they're people that know how to take that and and make something beautiful. Out of it. So.
Well, you you truly are making something beautiful out of it. I I love your studio space. And last time I was there, I heard some great, great stuff. Tell me about some of the artists that you're recording and and some of the projects that you've got. Coming out.
No, dude, there's not enough time. Yeah, like, like. And it's so it's so exciting too, because it's like, you know. You know, it's like the the mentality is like I got all. The friends I.
Need kind of thing with. Them like I meet people and just like Oh my.
God like maybe if.
I just stop sleeping, you know, like there'll be enough time in the day to, like, hang and get. The work done.
Yeah. I mean, honestly, so uh, shout out to Kevin Ashba who was hanging out here last time when you drop by, he's got a new single coming out early November called elevated. So you can find that rustgazerecords.com or find with search for Rust gaze records and any social media to find. The pre save link for that. Jasmine Gore, who is incredible singer-songwriter who grew up in the area and is living now in New York. But you know, she made it here the other month and we were able. To like lay down some new stuff. That was that samba track that I showed you.
Like when we were hanging out.
DL Burden Davy is one of the people not from this area. He's a he's an Englishman. You call him the Duke of Sunderland. But he is down in Dayton and we met through some mutual friends and we were talking. He's like, yeah, like. I used to tour. Around I was like, how cool, like, you know anybody, you know? Who? Who did you play with? He's like, oh, this band called. Leather face. And I was like the leather. Like I grew, you know, like.
I had that 7 inch and like.
Yada yada and he's like a new friend that like. You know, we've made in the last few years it feels like somebody that we've known all our lives, you know. So we put out a full length with him and our really good friend Craig, who played drums on that record. Who plays in this awesome band from Toledo called ****** Neighbors? Incredible punk band, one of my favorite bands right now. Logan Ross was like our flagship record and kind of how, you know, a lot of. This really like formulated was like. Him being kind of stuck in this like. Writers block rut and I was like alright dude, we're just going to like, record everything. That you have. We're going to put it out and that's going to open up all this mental space for you, for new ideas. You know, like this is, you know, and that was that was the first record that we put out and, you know, recorded in an abandoned office space you.
Know with no ventilation. You know, plumbing, you know, like.
Yeah. And we're hanging out with, you know, new artists right now, incredible songwriter from this area. His name is McCartney Robinson. And we just had like, first little studio hang where it's like, alright show. Me. What you got, kid? And he's like, you know, going through. 1012 songs and you know, like all of them. He's like, yeah, no, I get it. No, that's awesome. That's awesome. Saving this idea for last that it was just like you know, it's like you're sitting there like you don't want to jump in. Maybe like just too quick. And then it's like this last idea was like, alright, we gotta hang with.
This right now.
And came up with this really cool live demo, just like you know. In this. And maybe like an hour and a half hang, you know, like, so those are the types of people that like we, you know, just love hanging out with and, you know. People, especially like when they come in here and they're just like, oh wow, it's like they're thinking about what this can do kind of for themselves. But the people that like we like, really gravitate to are the ones that see that this is, like, this collaborative ecosystems. Like, what can I do for somebody else? And like, when somebody comes in here with, like, that kind of attitude?
It's like you weren't going anywhere, you know. What you were saying, right? Here so.
It's cool to hang with people like that. Caitlin Schmidt is another performer from this area that we've been hanging out in the studio with and like figuring out songs and, you know, working on tunes and stuff. Together. So it's. Yeah, it's incredible, man. I mean, there are so many talented people here that there's not enough hours in the.
Day to uh, you know?
Uh to do the work, but I feel like that's like when you do show up. And you've got the time together to do it. It's like. Getting it done and it's it's very focused thing that's like. Getting more and more concise and hopefully that just kind of continues. That way you know. Love to just be able to figure out that efficiency thing and you know, but when you were kind of doing everything here in house, it's like you know, I have to really remind myself to be patient sometimes. So it's all good problems to have.
So, well, you know, I I love how you. Describe recording sessions as a hang. With the artist and I, I get that vibe. When I'm in that room and being somewhat of a a fan of gear and studio equipment, I I. Love the quality of preamps? The quality of mics that you have and I like the sound of the room and I also like that it's so comfortable that it's it. You as a producer give the artist the feeling that they are just there for a hang. They're not. It's not like there's this red light that pops on them that like you're now on the clock. And start recording, yeah.
Yeah. On the flip side of.
That though you were mentioning the efficiency and and I'm wondering how rust gaze is evolving to to meet the needs both of your community, but also yourself. I mean, I think one of the hardest things for people in the music. Business it's a very difficult business to be in because. You either are. Selling yourself on the stage or you're selling coffee, you're selling beer. You're selling tickets, right? Or you're selling studio time. But how do you how do you transition to? This is my full time gig and I have to balance the needs of like. My artistic spirit that I I want to do this project, but I know this person doesn't have a whole lot of money or the people that you know you you may not be as jazzed about what they're producing, but they walked in with cash. You're you're. Yeah. Gotta pay the bills. So how do you as a producer and as a business owner? Manage that.
I am the worst person to talk to about this because.
You probably asked.
My wife about this too, because she's like.
When are you gonna take some of those? Cash paying gigs, you know.
No, it's that that balance is a very. It's a tricky thing, and it's definitely a very important thing. It's like whether. You are in my position or whether you are an artist coming in here to do that thing, going back to what you were saying about the environment, you know, kind of created in here. Thank you for saying that because I've been the. You know the kid on the other side working with people and you know, I've worked with people whose attitudes are like, it's my way or the highway and, you know, just kind of. Built the separation between like you and them kind of thing and I've worked with people who are like the exact opposite that. Kind of come in and become a member of the band or, you know, like, like I said, somebody that like, you feel like you've known all like your life. And to be, you know, to really be able to. I think express yourself in an honest way, you you kind of have to let your guard down. You know, like you can't be thinking about. You know, being honest and also like, you know. I guess like worrying about all these external things at the same time, like while you're you're trying to to put down a performance that's going to get captured, you know, so to make that environment. For me, you know, I I want to do it first and foremost because I know what it takes and then also too, we're hanging with people that it's easy to have that relationship with. And I think that that's why, you know, I'm selfish in terms of. You know. The limited amount of people that I work with, and I'm also kind of stupid for like not taking the cash stuff that like would probably.
Pay and you know so.
In those instances I'm I'm the last person.
To ask about that so.
But you know that's that's why you know. You you met. Our our great partner, David Antine, who's the businessman who allows me to be, you know, kind of. You know, thinking more with the heart than the brain. But you know, he's thinking with the brain sometimes. And it's like, you know, we it's a nice compliment to each other like, you know. Not it's not even compromise. You know? It's like just it's communication and it's, you know, being able to. See both sides of this weird coin that.
We're kind of developing so.
You know it's interesting because whenever we meet where I'm kind of wearing my lawyer hat, I I know that your wife is in the room and and Dave was in the room.
And and so.
It's like, OK, I know that there's a team, but it's really great to speak to the heart of that team. Because I I. Love your creative spirit and I know that you understand the artist side of it, and I think that's what makes the producer artist relationship really special. I think you're eliciting a good performance because. You you want the you want that genuineness, you want the the raw and the real. And I think. If, if I'm paraphrasing a little bit of what you're saying is allowing the business manager to handle some of the bookings in the in the financial side and allowing your wife a role in strategy and and thinking about it in terms of financials. Then kind of frees you up to be the artist and producer artist that you that you are, is that, is that a good some red scene?
That is that it it very, very yes. You know like and I think that. I think that you know that that same kind of worry that we try to lift from like the. Artists. It's like important. To do that across the board, you know, like when you are lucky to have a team like that with people that you can trust and realize what people's strengths are and realize you know how to complement each other. So I mean it's the same thing that goes with having you know, managers, booking agents. Attorneys, you know, like. You don't. You know, you don't want to be some kind of afterthought or back burner like on anybody's thing you want. You know everybody to be. Showing up with mutual love and respect, because that's the only way that you're going to inch something that seems like. Impossible, you know forward so yeah.
I I I'm glad you mentioned that because I I think a lot of people who are checking out this podcast for the first time or checking out the music business mentorship are are really wondering how is it possible to do what we do, how can we transition to a full time. Making a living from our creativity and it's a real journey and there's no one easy answer. And and the more people that I talk to on this podcast, the more experiences I have as an attorney for artists and musicians, the more I realize there's just not one way and everything is always changing. So sometimes it feels like you have to be everywhere doing everything all at once. And and I I know the kind of burnout that that. Can cause so. Let me ask you, how do you deal with that side of it? How do you deal with self-care and making sure that you can renew your creative spirit and and feel like this impossible task that you get up to do every day? Is is worth doing?
Yeah, no, for sure, man. Like, I mean, it sounds so cheesy, but it's like, you know, if you can take care of yourself and you. Your thoughts and your emotions and all like the things that kind of can become hurdles when you're taking on something like this. Then it does free up a lot of.
Ram and like a lot of like you.
Know energy to get stuff done. So I mean it's like so important and I wish I would have known this when I was a kid, you know? Like. But I think like. When you're young, like you're full.
Of like you know the. **** and the vinegar that.
Will keep you going through like whatever. But I mean, it's like so important to be able to. Unplug to be able to, you know like. Eat right. Sleep right. Meditate like you know. Have something outside of. The thing that you're constantly. Thinking about that can like take you away from it a little bit. And you know that's. That's really what? You know that along with like you know. The luck that we have working with the people that we do because like I said again, it's not. Like I'm clocking in, you know, and like, but you know, you are burning mental energy and you are burning physical energy. So it's like, you know, having to remind myself that sometimes.
When, like the days get long or.
Things are like, you know, you look at the calendar and it's like man. There's no, you know, there's no day on here that doesn't have.
A dot you. Know which is.
A blessing sometimes. You know it's, you know, it's ultimately a blessing. But no, I think you know just being able to. To unplug and recharge your batteries is just so important so.
You know, I've I've mentioned this. Yeah.
Eat your vegetables. Eat your vegetables. Get get some rest. You know, like church on Sundays. Whatever it.
Takes, you know.
Well, I mentioned I mentioned this to you. I think when we last spoke and and I've mentioned it quite a bunch lately, Bob Weir gave an interview a series of interviews in 2020. Two I think about and it was like to men's health and GQ. About how he's able to maintain his long term career and it was meditation working out and dedicating himself to a sense of purpose. And I think you've kind of perfectly encapsulated all of that. You've kind of maximized your skills and talents, dedicating yourself to a purpose that's. Yes, a studio and yes, it's to these artists careers, but it's also to the greater Lima community and to all of you know, bringing a a vibrant downtown. And and and creating a creative class and creative culture there in, in a city that otherwise would be just staring at the rust, you know, gazing at the rust, so to speak. So I think it's, I think it's amazing. I think what you're. Doing is like. Like the Wizards of Old Man, you're you're like the one bringing the magic to the town.
Bringing dude, it's alchemy. It really is, man. It's something out of nothing, you know, and it's like. Shoot, there's nothing else I'd rather be doing. And it's cool because, you know, get to meet cool people like you. We get to, you know, get together and. Talk about things that like we love and how to, you know. Help people do the thing that they love like.
Get out of town, man. Like. Who won the lottery? You know like.
Yeah, definitely blessed. Absolutely well. And I, I want to just say one more time how much I love everything that I've heard coming out of your studio. So that's a real testament to having good years, having talent having having. Gear that you know you know how to use and I I don't want people to think that they have to spend thousands and thousands of dollars to get a really good mic preamp. But you know, I don't think you have anything that you don't need. I think you have what you need. I don't think it it's cluttered or or you know I think you get a really good sound and you get. You elicit some really good performances, and that's that's a testament to you. How did you develop that skill to use the gear to? I mean, you were a road dog. And how did you transition to be a studio guy?
GarageBand and like you know, getting. Uh. Getting a Mac early on was like this. Understanding of, you know, looking at a console and not seeing like a million buttons, but just being like, OK, this is, this is what EQ is. This is what compression is. This is, you know what saturation is and you know to be done and you know this very kind of Fisher price kind of way that garage band is able to offer you. That's able to do the exact same thing as like Pro Tools or you know what I mean? Like. Obviously there's. Different. You know, things like that. But like on on the technical sense, it was really youtubing stuff. It was, you know. Getting you know, like tutorial videos and hanging out in the van and figuring out what you know, Ableton is made out of and logic is made out of but on. The more holistic sense of, you know, songwriting and stuff, it was just really being able to hang out with, you know, some really talented people that were very generous about their information and like their knowledge, you know, and I think the. You know it's it's weird because it's like this. Not it's this combination of this technicality, but also. I mean kind of woo too, you know, like, trying like, you know, how do you have a conversation with somebody you know and. Allow you know some some honesty to come through, whether it's in like lyric writing or like a performance and stuff. It's like you can't YouTube that I.
Don't think you know like.
So the microphones and like you know, like the mixing stuff, you know? Like that's all. That information is out there, but it's also, you know, this place is it's everything from, like the studio to like, you know. A therapist couch to being like, you know, party room. So you know, it's like kind of like all across the board, but. Yeah. And, you know, I've just been listening to music since I was a kid. So, you know, I I know what I like and. I try to get the most. It would be very easy for me to like take songs that are coming in here and like you know, kind of throw them in the direction that I think that they should go. But like, there's this communication that. I'd love of, you know, talking to somebody. Well, what the vision is and how you know, how do we reach this target together, you know, so it's like. You have to have. Some foundation of the vision where we know that we're going somewhere together and then, you know, if not, then it's like cool. Let's see what happens. Let's take this where it can kind of, you know, like maybe sometimes that doesn't necessarily have to be the case and we'll get there together. But yeah, it's just it's fun, man. You know, it's cool. Learning a piece of gear and like, you acquire something and all of a sudden, like, everything's, you know, feels like it's better, like, you know, like, so that stuff's fun. But you know, it's also very addictive.
So you have to be careful.
Yet don't get Gear acquisition syndrome. My God, I had a producer mentor of mine. Tell me it's not how many plugins you have. It's how many completed songs you have letters.
Exactly, dude. Like, you know, I think that that. When we were talking kind of a little bit about what you're doing with this mentorship program and stuff, it's like. You know, there's there's the business side of it, but there's also like this this other side too, like of, you know. How do you become efficient and how do you explain to people too, that you know there's there is this business side, you know, like one of my favorite books. I'm sure that you've. Hung with that. Real artist don't starve and like you know, I love the concept of like, really trying to. Like squash, the notion of like the starving artist, right. And for me, I think I gave myself those excuses before, you know. But it's like, you know. In terms of like putting in the time and taking your craft seriously and sharpening and honing like your skills, you know and. There's something within us that, you know, I think that human nature. It's like, well, I can never be that person. I can never like do that. But I think that if you at least have, like enough belief in yourself to put in the hour of the day, you know, then that will, you know, in the course of a few weeks, you see that you're able to finish those songs. You know, like, you see that you're able to kind of like, have this thing. So I think what you're doing is great, man. I feel like it's going to help a lot of people and whatever we can do to help, please let us know because you know, I'd love to be part.
Of the the journey, I really appreciate that certainly. It you know. I think you hit on a lot of really good things there. Number one, you you said, you know, learning to have a conversation. And learning, I think learning to have a conversation. Is a real art form, I think, not thinking of the things that you want to say while they're talking, letting someone speak. You know, I think that makes you a better producer. And the fact that you mentioned that means you're hearing what they're giving you, what they're saying, what they're expressing with their song before you decide. You know, it's like someone. Who gets a? A A plate of food from a chef and then immediately put salt on it before they've even tasted it. You know you have this projection of what it is, and if you're doing that then you're not really hearing what it what it is or what it could be. So I think that as a producer, that's an amazing skill. But I also think you touched on something that I just. Realized as we were talking and that's one of the benefits of this podcast, is being able to talk at length about the process. You know, when you're an artist and and and certainly I've spent a lot of time behind the fret board. I I'm trying to teach myself piano now and I'm I'm exploring different YouTube tutorials and I've got some apps and and. I'm you know, I've always loved the piano and I love it for theory stuff, but I'm not good enough on the piano to go out and sing and play a show on. Beats. I can play all night long on guitar, bass, maybe saxophone on a few tunes. I I can play a number of different instruments. But to sit there and, like, get my hands to really learn a piece of music. You know, it's it's hard, especially as an adult to kind of put yourself in that I've got to put the 10,000. Hours in but I. Think that the transition. That's so hard for artists is that you've spent so much time. Doing something that to by all accounts by other people's metrics is not generating revenue. It's not generating anything. It's generating self improvement, you know, and it's not even like working out where you know you can see the muscle tone it's it's it's building muscles that can't be seen. It's building an expression and a skill set. That isn't immediately causing gratification or your financial gain. So artists are so used to doing something. It gives them self improvement. For no money that then they get into a habit of doing things for no money, and real artists don't starve. That's a great book, a great quote and and ultimately if you understand that what you're doing is, you're perfecting your craft like the craft of songwriting, getting up and working at it every day, not waiting for inspiration. To strike you, but to work at it, to build so that you can then have something to offer and then creating that exchange between your fan base and your wallet, yeah.
Yeah, you're good.
Yeah, you're giving yourself, but you've gotta create a space for them to your fans to give back to you. To sustain this this thing you know.
Exactly. Exactly. So you know, it's like I talk to people that that have, like, the notion and it's like, OK, if you can, like realize. That you know you like on whatever like level of talent or skill set or like whatever, you still possess something that, like allows you. To have like an output of your thoughts, feelings and emotions, and a lot of people don't have that right. Like you see people walking around and they're just like, ohh like it's because like, they don't have this, it's it's a blessing really. Like. So if you can think about it like that, then it's not like, oh, I have to sit down, do this. Like, I get to do this. And I've got some interest in doing. This you know.
Right.
And when you put that time in as as an artist, as a songwriter, as like a musician, ultimately like you, just you, you're. You're figuring what is the most genuine expression of yourself and how do I get better at that? How do I get better at? Defining my thoughts and my feelings, whether it's through lyrics, melodies, riffs, you know, like pieces, so you know that thing should. You know, it should feel like playing. More than it should feel like working, right? But then after like you've let this thing out of you, right? Yeah. Then kind of this responsibility for that kind of takes place where it's like, OK, do I just let this sit on a hard drive? You know, it's like these different levels. The first thing is like getting it off your chest. Getting it off your back then the second level is figuring out how do I find a a community of people that aren't like you're not looking at them like fans or like walking $20 bills, that's like. You know, hopefully like minded people that are going to recognize what it is that you're doing and like that first layer of like, you know, getting the thing out to the second layer of finding somebody that can like absorb that thing and then maybe it helps them in a way or you know, even if it's you know, a party jam. With friends and it's like setting the tone for like, you know, a really nice time. You know, if it's like something like that. Like, if it's helping somebody with a problem, if it's like that kind of thing. It's like if you can look at it like that, it's not like. It it, it doesn't feel like slimy to like, sell yourself, you know, like, because you're not. It's like, how do you find like minded people that are gonna understand what it is that you're doing and when you can connect? With people like that. That level. And then it it can. It builds in the most natural way you know, and that's a hard thing to explain to people. It's a hard thing for me to do, too. Like when I'm like, online and, like, thinking about social media and stuff like. But I also see people that are doing it in this very cool, honest way. And I think that, you know, like when. We're talking about people talking to people that we work with and it's like, you know. To to be able to build a a base of supporters, you have to engage with them so. Part of your work is figuring out how do you do that in an honest way that doesn't feel icky.
You know.
Yeah, that aligns with your values.
Yeah, yeah, definitely. And I think that that's, you know, that's just as important as putting in the time. Whatever your skill is, you know, like whether it's songwriting or guitar playing or, you know, like producing anything. Like so you know, it's like, I mean, I love Steven Pressfield. I love work of art. They say that one right, I.
Was heard of war? Yeah, war of.
Art, right? Yeah.
Because there's like that thing that's like, OK, there's time to be like. Creative and to like, let the Muses visit you and for you to like, do it. And then like there's like, you know, like the editing sense. And there's also like this, this whole other side of like, what are you going to do at that time that you just like? Had this output and you know we're able to shape it. And now you have, I think for, you know, lack of a better term once it kind of gets to this like package thing. It's kind of a product. Now right like. Yeah, but this is birth from you. This is birth. From your thoughts, from your your feelings. And like your emotions. So it's like you know. How do you continue to ship? You know you like.
Yeah, well, you know, there's a couple of. Different examples from from the sort of the the upper echelon of of music that that I've seen that really kind of inspired me. And one is. The story that it's in the history of the Eagles documentary where Glenn Frey is talking about living above Jackson. Around and I didn't. Know how to write songs, he says. And then. I heard every. Morning at 9:00 AM, Jackson would sit at the piano and I'd hear him bang out the first verse. And every day he would, you know, do that for an hour, and then he'd make some tea, and then he'd go work at the first verse into the second verse, and he'd play it 20 times and maybe make some slight changes. And then he. Do it again and and and that that sort of grind is something that I think it gets a little lost in in. In the. Creative process people don't always think about how hard it is to kind of come up with something that's really amazing, but then there's the other thing. And that that's sort of aiming at your higher purpose. I I watched a documentary that David Letterman went to Ireland to meet with Bono on the Edge and. They did a. Little performance and a reimagining of their songs. And it was sort of the start of what became Bono's autobiography. And then he did a solo show at the Beacon Theater. But watching them talk about how did this whole thing come about? And really, they went through a real crisis of faith. They were, they were trying to. Talk about religion without talking about religion. They were trying to live up to their their ideals in a time of war between Northern Ireland and. The British and and the. Just a real time of trouble and they felt like what is their higher purpose? And some people told them to give up music because they thought it was frivolous. They said this rock'n'roll thing is not cool, but then they sort of the way that they characterized it in this David Letterman documentary. Was that they kind of stumbled upon this this song, the The Bloody Sunday song that really kind. Took everything they had been doing and coalesced it into kind of a mission. And you can see, I mean, Bono took that and has run with it, probably to the annoyance of some of his bandmates at times. But but it's amazing to see a group of people dedicate themselves to a higher purpose, using their skills and talents to the best of their ability. And I think. Regardless of what your taste in music. You can I I've had had friends over the years who don't really like the edges guitar playing or they don't really like Bono for his political things or whatever criticisms you might throw at a a particular band, or you 2IN general. It's undeniable that they've reached the pinnacle of the business. They're still doing it. After a very long period of time, they've been very successful at it, so they are a model of success. They are a model of using what they've got to change the world. And I I mean I think. That's back to the wizardry thing. I think all of us, as as artists are, have a responsibility. I I think that the wizard brought the magic to the town, but it also was kind of the medicine man, the healer, the, you know, I think we bring a little bit of. Something special to the? World and and. You, as you said, it's your responsibility then to figure out what you do with it after that. And I I admire those folks who can bring it together and then put it out there for for a positive benefit, for not just themselves, but for the world.
Yeah, man. And I think I mean it. There's a huge pressure. Like when you think about it's like you see, you know, throughout the course of history, obviously it's like there's always like troubles and problems and stuff, but it's like, you know, we're living through ours and you see that and it's like, well, what the hell? Can I do you know?
Like I just.
And and for me it was like, well, what can I do like and it's not. Anywhere else, it's like who? You know, what can I help with around me right now? And who can I help around me right now? And I think that when you can do that, it takes that pressure off that world thing and and you 2's case, right it was. Like their snapshot of what was happening in their world at that time, and to be able to grow from something like that. Too Bono being, you know, like this. Like world traveling like, you know, more than just, like philanthropist. You know what I mean? Like, just, you know, drawing attention to issues and like. You know, advocating for causes and stuff like that. It like starts with just looking around you. Right? Like that's that's the first.
Step you know.
Yeah, to to hopefully growing to a place, but it's like, you know, if if that intention is there and and you're able to affect the people in your vicinity in a. Positive way, you know like that doesn't that doesn't that feeling can't get old, you know, like and then hopefully that thing just kind of grows, you know, hopefully that circle grows and, you know, influence of of positive you know change can kind of. You know, infiltrate different places in different ways. And you know. So that's the goal.
Yeah. You know, I think you're a living example of that, man. You know, you're you're really helping your community and you're doing it in a super cool way with the skills and talents you have. And I think it's awesome. So I I applaud you.
What do you what do you?
I applaud you, Sir.
I applaud you.
See yourself doing in the next year or two. And and what? What's your vision for the next 5 to 10 years? What's? What's on the horizon?
I mean, you know, like if we can continue doing like what we're doing for as long as possible, like we're going to be psyched, you know, to continue. Developing, you know, and hanging with the artists that we have been, you know, have been family for years, but also meeting new people. UM. One of the things, and we've talked about this, you know, like early on when this thought kind of started formulating of what this could be, it was like, you know. For to be able to to develop and and kind of get some people out there from this area that then younger people can look at and. Say ohh this thing that I love isn't impossible because that you know this guy that's in front of me. You know, I was able to do that thing, you know, that has always been the goal. It's like, what can we do that can soak into the soil and continue. This thing that can can you know, through osmosis almost, you know, like rubbing off like on, you know, inspiration for other people so. It would be such a cool thing for us and, you know, trying to get it off the ground. But to be able to do like some kind of school of rock performance thing here in town that can draw all these different facets of, you know, entertainment and art kind of together like in a place that can, you know, be a resource for. Anybody but, like, really kind of, you know, focus in on on, you know, middle school, high school age kids that have this notion. And and especially with kind of like the diminishing of like arts and stuff and like public schools, it's like, you know, for me, you know, that's one of the reasons why I love going to school and like, when that thing's taken away. It's like what? The hell am I? Doing here, you know, like so to be able. To provide that. Thing and hang with local schools and get like. You know, find the those those people that are interested in that.
Thing and.
Kind of help shape that would be a really cool thing to be doing in 5-10 years for sure, hopefully sooner, hopefully sooner.
I have I applaud that, that.
Yeah. No, that's great, man. That's that's excellent. I I applaud that so much. I, as I might have told you, I I LED a band that was primarily young people for a couple of years. That I I love that mission. I think that the music business mentorship kind of grew out of that experience and certainly practicing law and seeing what people have done that causes a whole bunch of problems. You know, my goal is to try to teach some folks so that they avoid all those problems and the, the the target audience of this podcast. And my my courses and and the coaching program is is really the 19 year old. Me. You know, if I. Could grab that kid who's just coming out of high school. You know, you've kind of been forced. To do this thing that your parents said to do for all these years. And now you're kind. Of at the cusp of adulthood. What are you going to do with your life? And I didn't want to do anything but play music. Now I I had to take a meandering journey to get where I am here as I think a lot of us do. But if I could. Have the the me of now talking to the me of then. I might have steered him in a little different direction, so I'm I'm hoping to do that for others and and I can see that same spirit in you. And I know you will. I think it's. I think it's really amazing.
I appreciate it.
Let's talk if I can. If I just want to ask because I've I've kind of asked this question of a lot of folks and this will be our our last question, then we'll, we'll wrap it up. But if you. Had a magic wand and you could solve any problem either in the music business in general or in your particular music business. What what would you do with that, that power?
So and hit the lights we. We get to experience a lot. The scene that we were in was the one, you know, the the stuff that we grew up listening to the labels that like we dreamt of being on, like, the the types of bands. There was this, like, very grassroots DIY camaraderie thing where, you know it. It wasn't about record sales for like a label to keep like a band on a label kind of thing. You know what I mean? Like you didn't have to sell X amount of records. It was more of, you know, just the the love of that act and what they were doing. I think that. As the band continued and like we kind of grew from that independent scene and like you see, like the true belly and nature of the beast, you know, and it's like this thing that, you know, like any industry especially like in entertainment, you're really just kind of. Ringing out the talent until there's nothing else left and then looking for the next person in line that's willing to sacrifice themselves to like these.
You know these gods.
That was something that was really discouraging for sure early on and, you know, to see what that was, it was like, man, that's that's kind of not what we signed up for. You know, it's like. I think that you know, if I had, like, a magic wand. It would. It would kind of figure out what what's the, what's the way that you can do something like that sustainably where you aren't really taking advantage of the artist, where the artist can survive, where the artist can, you know, thrive and not have to do things that they don't want to do. Like and can just live, and you know, I don't know what that is. I know that like as labels started losing money because of, you know, Napster and Limewire and then like, ultimately stream. Doing a lot of those guys at the tops, paychecks never really diminished, right? It was like, like who? Who can we get rid of here to make sure that my paycheck doesn't change, you know? Then, like, the 360 deals start happening or it's like, what else can we take? You know, like, it just seemed like. And nobody had the right idea to come in and save this thing. And like, you know, do it like in a way with like integrity. You know, and it just keeps *********** to now this point where it's like somebody can have millions of streams and you know get checks for seven cents. It's like, wow, it's like you really want these computers to start making this stuff for us.
Or something, you know, like you just like.
Want to figure out what's the easiest way to do it? So I mean the the coolest thing that that can happen is somebody comes up with something. Whatever.
That thing is, but you're the one with.
The with the magic wand. Scenario so.
So let me ask you, what is what is that? You know, how do you? How do you?
Well, in many ways.
How you save a burning ship?
You know like.
In many ways, the music business mentorship is here to help guide folks into having a self-sustaining creative career, and I think. That one of the answers has to be in this day and age is diversification and I think you've got to be able to. Understand and navigate the world of e-commerce so that you're focused every day on making a sale. As someone who ran a venue for a while and and dealing with business partners who just saw music as sort of a marketing expense, it was like they wanted to cut the cost and yet we were saying no. We need to have a show on Tuesday night. We need to have a show on Monday night. We need to have shows every night because that's our brand. That's our mission and it's the daily sales. If we can take a daily Tuesday from a, you know, an $800 sale night to a $2500 sale night because we put a band on the stage. And if the difference between what we. Made and you know. What we had to pay the band was. Not we netted more profit to to bottom line it then it's worth doing and and it's worth doing for a lot of different reasons and it's worth doing because this is a diverse crowd and the Monday night crowd is different than the Tuesday night crowd and it's a community that you're building and and building that community on a daily basis is really what helps sustain. An individual artist. So you. You may say, well, I don't really want to do the Tik toks. I really don't want to do as many Instagram. Grams. But ultimately it's just creating a pathway for that exchange of energy. So if you're if if your thing is to do a particular style of of song and maybe you know you're you, there's only so much you can put out of that kind of content. Well, maybe utilize your TikTok. Platform to do something in a humorous way or to switch it up so that you're you're using Instagram for more graphic design stuff, but you're staying within. The the value system and the ecosystem of your brand and your artist brand and also I think thinking about things like a brand or or a message and trying to continually foster that. I think it's easier when you have a purpose like you know the bono. For example, like if everything that he does is is focused on. On being a better band and putting out a better song and then using that song to convey a message of peace and hope and love and in. A better world. It becomes easier to kind of do the heavy. Lifting of OK, well, I've got to, I've. Got to put out another Instagram. Post today and and I think that. You know, creating this, this conscious career in a world where, yes, the streaming revenues are drying it up, you've got to shift to. You've got to shift to another Ave. of making your money, and that is back to fan sales is never going to go away. And yeah, you know, using these platforms, if your whole goal is to just get TikTok famous or to get a million streams on Spotify, you're not aiming at a higher purpose and. Someone out there listening might say, well, that's easy for you to say. You know, you're not doing it, you're a lawyer, you know? Well, I that's just an example of my own diversification, cause I still play guitar. I still write songs. I still produce tracks. I have songs repped by agencies and I'm still trying to pitch them for ads, TV and film. I'm now trying to teach other people how to do that. Meanwhile I'm doing it. Myself. So.
Proofs in the pudding. It's like, yeah, definitely.
I mean, I like I don't. Pretend that this business is easy. It's not easy if if you want to be in where money, you know, making money is your goal, then go into finance or banking where they have all the money already. If you want to be an artist, where you synthesize the world around you and you convey a message and you maximize your skills and talents. And the service of your community. That a community that you created a tribe, that you are the leader of. You've just got to take on some of these responsibilities. You may not have wanted to or may not even have imagined that you that you did, but no, there's no, there's no substitute for creating that connection one-on-one with with a fan and.
Definitely. And I think that that's the coolest thing about, you know, like the technology that we do have nowadays is the way that you are. Able to to go out there and find that that community and and build that community and. Like you know, but I I also miss like the weirdness of, like, the 80s and like the 90s. Like where you didn't know, you know, like what, like? Like Frank Black, like the singer of the Pixies, was eating for breakfast. You know, you didn't even know what the Pixies looked like, you know, like, unless, like you saw, like, a press photo and some grainy like, you know, like scene or something like that, you know, like. So like the you know there. It's it's such like a necessary thing to be able to continue, but like there's some mystery like thing that's like, you know, kind of like unveiled about, you know, like maybe it's too much of that. Accessibility. You know, like maybe that's like what it?
Well, you know, I think.
Right.
There's something to be said for reserving something for yourself and for your. Family, I mean. I think ultimately we all understand and as future generations will understand that the that the social media world is just a carefully curated vision of yourself that you're projecting to the world. It's not necessarily who you really are and getting trapped in thinking that's who you really are can lead to overinflated egos and some problems if you take it the wrong way, you know.
That's and I mean, that's gonna be such a great. Like packet of advice to to include and stuff that that you're doing and it's like constant reminders of that thing so that people don't get swept up into this synthesized version of themselves. And then, you know, like.
Lose touch with the reality and like you know.
But also have the confidence to get out there and put themselves out there in a way. But like, isn't icky and feels like he could be very, like, honest and and genuine. So yeah, rope. It's a tightrope block for sure, like.
It really is, but it's it's there's there's a double edged sword to sort of everything that we're talking about here with the whole social media world and the and the, the place that we are, there's. There's a New York Times article that just came out. It was an editorial piece where. The writer was saying that there's been the lowest number of albums and new new movies, and and a lot of movies that we see now are rehashes of older ideas. Even this brilliant Barbie movie is really taking a concept that's that's much older and repackaging it for a new generation. But I think that. That there is. A lot of creativity going on in the social media world and I think that it it it sort of hasn't been codified by some of the people who. You know, look at in the numbers of albums released, I think that all the daily creativity and the micro creativity that goes into creating and curating your own. Profile is is is an opportunity I think like yes, streaming numbers have gone down, but it's also an opportunity to discover stuff because you know, in days gone by in the 80s you you would only see an album on the shelf. For a limited amount of time, unless it was selling, you know, then it would just go out and you wouldn't be able to find that anywhere. So now you. Can kind of find. The the body of world's knowledge and the world's music at your fingertips on your phone, which is a tremendous opportunity for growth and culture and all that. But it does take a certain sort of sophistication to kind of say. All right, I'm not the person that I'm putting myself out there. The on but but but a certain amount of that is authentic and that and the authenticity does engage with fans. And there's a balance between authenticity and familiarity. Breeds contempt like you don't wanna see what my hair looks like in the morning. My wife tells me I have 3 looks. I've got. The the look right out of the shower. There's the look when. I wake up the look out of the shower and then the look. After my hair kind of has softened for a while for. The day.
You know it's.
Yeah, but the look that I that I spent 8 hours every night curating with my hair. That's probably not on social media, very.
Often you know what I.
Mean I spent. A lot of time working on that hairstyle. Just for one an audience of. One my my wife.
Feel and.
Feel like you're coming up with some really engaging content though. If you showed the different stage.
I might I. Might have to. I might have to.
But you know, as as I as I think about this, there's a a a band that I'm gonna have on the podcast called the crutches. And they're from Chagrin Falls. OH. They they at least.
OK.
Claim to be. Because they're all animated their entire persona.
Is I love it, man. That's insane. That's absolutely. That's so cool. Like so.
Anime, yeah.
So it's like it's taking a real band and then putting projecting their vision of and and they they're they're. They're all cartoon characters.
Student like.
And I want to meet the person who who's who's birthing this idea because you know, I mean, like, that stuff's exciting, you know, like. I was having a conversation with Dave yesterday. We were. Watching some stuff on YouTube and you know, some something this like concert film made by this artist whose name is Dijon. 25 minute Long Lake live concert thing took the concept of like a live concert footage thing and just completely flipped it on its head and it's like this way that we were just like floored by. And you know. I was like thinking because of, you know, being on the inside of of making something like this. What the dynamic is with like the idea. The person that has to go to somebody else to tell them how this crazy idea, it's like, I don't know if this is going to work and that person being like F it let's do it anyway, let's see what happens, you know and like man like, that's the kind. That's the kind of stuff that, like, just, you know, gets me going when somebody's like, I got this crazy idea. Like, let's do it. Like, you don't even know what the.
Idea is like I. Don't care. Let's just do it.
You know, like that kind of concept, the stuff that I love. So like, I genuinely love hearing some some crazy cool. Ideas. Was that like and I wanted to know that person. I want to know what makes them tick. I want to make. I want to know what gives them the gall to think that they can do. Just through that, that inspires me to like, you know, really follow those crazy ideas when I have them. So I I love that.
Well, yeah, I will. The crutches dot the dot crutches dot official on Instagram is hailing from Chagrin Falls. OH, the band consists of.
Please send me that stuff.
Rigby, Stone, Elliot, Rooster, Arthur, Duke, Oswald, Cannon, Doc, and they are an animated band. And they.
Wait, did is Doc just like single name? Just.
Doc, like every like.
Is that one person like OK?
There's three people, and Duke Oswald Cannon is Doc DFC.
OK. OK. OK, OK. OK. OK. I thought like everybody had, like, you know, first and last names. And then just Doc, is the drummers.
But shared.
It's Rigby. Rooster and Doc are the folks in the band. It's it's a it's a great concept. It really is. I I've heard some of their music. It seems pretty cool, but we're not here necessarily to talk about them. We're here to talk about you and your stuff. What is the next thing? Tell me when the next. Block party is in the next event at the Legacy Arts Center and how often do you do them? And let's put on a plug for coming out.
That's for sure.
So, so legacy arts, we we throw this party every year on Main Street in Lima, OH USA. We just celebrated our 4th 1 Great Acts, great attendance. You know, it's like one of those things where. It's like. You know you. You put in the work you do the thing and like. It's through just the. The continued occurrence of that the people start trusting it, you know, like it's like, OK like, you know, we see your name now. OK, like we know that this is something worth coming out to. And it's really just about putting on the type of party that we would want to go to, you know, kind of selfishly, like we're using these resources to book bands that we love to curate artists that we love, you know, to like, you know, even with like, food and and drink and, you know, other programming that kind of goes on. It's just like this is. The type of thing that we want. To experience. So let's do that and let's let's find the same people that are into the same stuff. And it's been really cool to be able to continue that so next year, next September, look out for the legacy Art St. party. Is that going to be 20? 24 yeah.
2024 next year, so yeah.
So in terms of the venue here, the bar purple fee. Is actually going to be moving into the back, so once that happens and that gets settled, then we're going to figure out what the events are going to be going on back there. But in terms of looking out for releases from Rust Gaze, Kevin Ash has got elevated single coming out. Leave November 3rd. Two singles coming out on deck from Jasmine Gore, DL Burden. We are going to have at least an EP coming out, let's say by spring time next year and then all the fun people that we're meeting along the way that are coming out of the woodwork so. So definitely check us out and follow these artists. You are not going to be upset. That you did. And yeah, come hang out in Lima if you know, look us up. Legacy Arts Building, 230 N Main St. probably here. Ask for Omar. I'm in my dusty little corner of the universe and. Come hang out.
That's amazing, man. It really is. You've got a really great thing going on, Omar. I love it. I I I particularly love all the music you just mentioned. And I really do enjoy, whether it be an indoor hanging at the in the space, in the back of the building there or the the street party, which I have yet to make it to. But I want to. I'm planning to put that on my calendar, so that's that's something for September of next year. But I really my hats off to you man. It's really cool, really great stuff. And thanks very much for being on the music Business Ventures podcast.
Anytime, man. Thank you, John. Seriously. Like this is, you know, anytime that we just have a chance to to chat it up and and and catch up is is really special. But the fact that you know hopefully you know there's been some little nugget of truth or something in here that somebody picks up on that you know. Allows them to continue doing what it is that they're doing and allows them to, yeah, and grow and. To be a part of, that's really cool. So honestly, whatever we can. Do please let us know of course course, Brother.
Thanks man. I appreciate it.
off the bat it was just kind of undeniable. And I kind of saw it just all come together because I was like, everybody knew about my. Passed in, you know, touring and traveling. And they're like, so when is it time for us to blow this popsicle stand? And that's like when it's like you don't, you know? Like you stay here. Develop your thing like you're obviously great at XY and Z, but maybe like there's some stuff that like you do need to work on, and let's figure out what that is together. So that when you know you go to a place like Nashville or New York or LA or even Cincinnati or Columbus, like there are people waiting for you, you know, like you've done the work, they knew who you are. For me too is kind of the selfish thing because I just like want it. You know, I didn't want these people. To leave like, you know like. And then like I realized, I was like, no, this is like a bigger problem. This is like brain drain. This is, you know. Realizing that different towns that are of our size that are, you know, at risk of losing bright young people are actually doing something about it. So that's kind of where this, you know intention shifted to kind of poking the finger in the chest of people that you know should be hanging on and nurturing. This kind of talent, you know, to like, create. An environment that people want to come to, you know, like when you Google Lima. OH, unfortunately the worst things come up. So like, if I'm talking to somebody in economic development or the Chamber of Commerce and like, well, how do you see this going? I'm like, flood the algorithm with young people doing awesome stuff. You know, like people of all ages, people of all, like, you know, like. When you do that, it's like you shift the the. This like mentality, and especially if you're trying to, you know, what's like the lingo that they use, like improve the quality of life and yada yada. Really, it's like they want young talent, you know, like young professional people to come and fill up these positions or whatever industries that we have here. But it's like, what's gonna really entice you about uprooting you and your family to come to Lima? OH, you know, like so that's, you know, where this thing kind of like we realize it's like, OK, this is like. More than just recording some songs, it's like this is, you know, being able to plant a flag in the. Ground for a place it. You know, hasn't had a lot of pride in itself. For years, like a lot of Midwestern towns that are kind of living that same thing but other places, our size and smaller are figuring out how to do it, you know, so it's like if we're catching up now, then we're already behind. So what are you going to do about it? Because this is what I'm doing.
You know, like I'm.
Providing nonprofit creative development for these area artists that like really have a chance of, you know. Not only being able to make a living off their creativity, but like plant a flag in the ground for this area. So that's, you know, really like we're lucky to know the people that we know because they're the ones that like. Make it easy to do the work you know, because it doesn't feel like work. I know that you know that, right? It's like when you're. Hanging out with. Somebody. It's like we're we're accomplishing things. We're being like, you know, very efficient. And we're doing something special. But like, because we're doing it out of, like, love and respect, it's like, you know, we're just hanging.
Out and doing ********. So. So that's.
You know, in a nutshell, that's.
What we've been doing in Lima is.
Hanging out with cool people developing stuff, you know the studio. Turned into. You know we. All of a sudden we had like a collective of people and they, you know, are hanging out on each other, stuff through mutual loves and like, respect building things. And we just had this, like, undeniable pile of songs. It's like, now what you know, and it's like, well, like, let's start a record label. You know, we've been throwing shows we've been. You know, promoting these artists in this like local and regional set. Is really shifting their perception of what homegrown art is in an area like this changing people's perceptions? You know, like putting music up front instead of in the background, putting it on in such like a small room that you can't deny, you know, like this thing in front of you. And when you see that. It's like, you know, this weird feedback loop of excitement, because the crowd feeds the music and like the musicians, and then the musicians play better and like they get the crowd more excited. And it's like stuff that was so natural for me that, you know, that just people weren't experiencing here. So we were able to do that and it's like, well, let's take this party as far as it can go. So I started Rush Day's records and. Have been just kind of chugging along, putting out records, you know, just figuring it out one step at a time. And that's kind of where we are, right?
Now let me tell our our listeners. When I met Omar, the record, the, the studio was actually. Really, upstairs in the back of a building that really the upstairs hadn't been used for much in quite a while. The bottom part of it had kind of a coffee shop and Co working space and the owner of the building was trying to foster coworking and all sorts of stuff. So it was sort of a perfect synergy for you. To kind of get started. But you were already in talks with the folks who own the legacy arts building and their comic book. Shop and they had big dreams for for the use of the space and you were already starting to throw shows in the back of their space and now you've got kind of a full time studio in the building. There's a comic book shop up front. There's a little bar. There's a a nice little area for a show a a nice stage in the back. There's a park along the side of the building and it's it's kind of like right in the heart of downtown Lima. So and and you throw a street party that that encompasses all of this stuff. So real amazing synergy I I want to know like what what has been the feedback from the civic leaders and the community as to everything that you're doing, cause you're a linchpin of all of this creative entrepreneurship?
Yeah, man, no, we're, I mean, we're lucky to have the partners that we do that kind of, you know, believe in the in the same kind of crazy stuff that you know that we really believe in and. You know, again, it's about changing perception in a town like this. So you know, there are people that like, listen kind of suspiciously, you know, and they're just kind of, you know, head tilted kind of thing like, you know, like, I don't know exactly if I understand, but like and then there are people that are like hell. Yes, like. Know exactly where we're coming from. And you know that's really. The support that's LED us to continue has been more from like the public than like the civic leaders that are there.
You know like.
There are some, like I said, there are some people that get it and then there are some that I feel that. Are just kind of bidding their time until you know what I.
Mean upholding some status quo.
Until they're out, you know? And like, you know, our hope is that whoever comes in next, you know, is willing to pay attention. Who? Going to, you know, hang with some ideas that they wouldn't necessarily like, you know, think of themselves or think as being like, you know, something worth trying out. But for us, it's like I said, it's the partners that we have, it's, you know, we've got great partners. Uh, you know or Lionel? Memorial Civic Center here in town. That saw it. Early on and was like, what can we do to help? And as you know, that's like. Gold to somebody.
That's like feeling like they're like.
Treading water or like you know what I mean, like fighting this uphill battle. Same thing with art space Lima and Greater Council. Our Council, the arts greater. I'm a our partners here at Legacy Arts the same way. Like you mentioned, the fact that the studio was in this abandoned office space, right and is above this coffee shop. And I don't even think that they knew exactly what we were doing up there.
Like, you know, like. There's probably like a few months until.
Like I was like hey. Do you want to come check? Out the space and they're like ohh like this. Is what's going on up.
Here so that.
Trust, you know, from from business owners here in this town. That has extra space that aren't doing stuff. With it, that's the type of thing that, like, we're trying to cultivate with, you know, legacy arts and legacy arts building and this collective of like minded people, you know, being able to pull their resources and their love for art and music and cool things to happen, you know, like. So I really see this as being, you know, a beacon, some kind of magnet that's, you know, here to drawing people that are just as weird as we.
Are the same stuff, so.
But yeah, Mark and Angie Boker that own this building and they have alter ego comics. They were some of those people early on. It's like, you know you, you know. What's going on? What are you doing? You know, like what? Like how are you gonna grow this? And there were some of the first people that I could be like. What's a Business plan and how?
Do you like? How do you do an Excel? Sheet, you know like.
So they were always very supportive of it. And you know, just kind of everything. Thing fell into place for us to be able to have this over here and you know, it wouldn't have started without putting together this little like PDF document of what things could look like. You know, like this packet of information that was just growing and growing and showing people. And my wife and I like we love. Going out of town, seeing places. You know where it was, you know, the similar kind of like teamwork in a culture that we appreciate and being like, why can't we have that in Lima, you know, like. There's no reason like that. You know, we just can't do it ourselves and find people that want to. Do it with us so. We're really lucky for that.
And tell me about your logo, because I I really think it's awesome. It's in the background of your. Screen there so. I can kind of see and it looks like Ohio across the top, but when you first described it to me, I was like, oh, that's genius. So what? What? What prompted that?
This I was. I was on tour with, hit the lights and we were in the UK and it was after a show and we're hanging out at a pub and I'm chatting with this guy that's like talking about. You know the reason why some of the best music in the world comes. Out of England and like the UK, is because it's so damn like Gray and dreary and like industrial.
And like you know.
And he's like, of course, you know, like that's, you know, inspiration and you know, it's like comes from the environment. So Sabbath and Birmingham and like The Smiths from Manchester like, you know nodding him or like whatever. He's like, you know, mentioning like Liverpool and like The Beatles. And I've got me thinking. Because that was like. You know, this realization of like, yeah, it's like true. It's like, you know, your environment really. Can shape your creativity and I was always like wondering how was it that like. These people from this area were like had this thing that was just like this charged creativity, you know? And it's like, that's what it is, you know, it's like, you know, we're kind of all looking at. It in Lima, it doesn't matter like where you are. You could be like the prettiest part of town. And like the refinery is like, you know, this flame, that's kind of like the watchful Eye of God, you know.
It's not wrong.
Yeah, yeah, like everywhere that you go is just kind of like there, like reminding you. And it's like, yeah, so it's like.
You know, it's like it take, like on shoe gaze, but it's like, you know, we're just gazing at.
All these things rusting around us, but it's.
Like taking responsibility for it. And like you know, really like. You know, acknowledging the fact that that's that's where this grit comes from and this, this honesty and this genuineness that I feel goes into, you know. A lot of people's brains and eyes subconsciously, but they're people that know how to take that and and make something beautiful. Out of it. So.
Well, you you truly are making something beautiful out of it. I I love your studio space. And last time I was there, I heard some great, great stuff. Tell me about some of the artists that you're recording and and some of the projects that you've got. Coming out.
No, dude, there's not enough time. Yeah, like, like. And it's so it's so exciting too, because it's like, you know. You know, it's like the the mentality is like I got all. The friends I.
Need kind of thing with. Them like I meet people and just like Oh my.
God like maybe if.
I just stop sleeping, you know, like there'll be enough time in the day to, like, hang and get. The work done.
Yeah. I mean, honestly, so uh, shout out to Kevin Ashba who was hanging out here last time when you drop by, he's got a new single coming out early November called elevated. So you can find that rustgazerecords.com or find with search for Rust gaze records and any social media to find. The pre save link for that. Jasmine Gore, who is incredible singer-songwriter who grew up in the area and is living now in New York. But you know, she made it here the other month and we were able. To like lay down some new stuff. That was that samba track that I showed you.
Like when we were hanging out.
DL Burden Davy is one of the people not from this area. He's a he's an Englishman. You call him the Duke of Sunderland. But he is down in Dayton and we met through some mutual friends and we were talking. He's like, yeah, like. I used to tour. Around I was like, how cool, like, you know anybody, you know? Who? Who did you play with? He's like, oh, this band called. Leather face. And I was like the leather. Like I grew, you know, like.
I had that 7 inch and like.
Yada yada and he's like a new friend that like. You know, we've made in the last few years it feels like somebody that we've known all our lives, you know. So we put out a full length with him and our really good friend Craig, who played drums on that record. Who plays in this awesome band from Toledo called ****** Neighbors? Incredible punk band, one of my favorite bands right now. Logan Ross was like our flagship record and kind of how, you know, a lot of. This really like formulated was like. Him being kind of stuck in this like. Writers block rut and I was like alright dude, we're just going to like, record everything. That you have. We're going to put it out and that's going to open up all this mental space for you, for new ideas. You know, like this is, you know, and that was that was the first record that we put out and, you know, recorded in an abandoned office space you.
Know with no ventilation. You know, plumbing, you know, like.
Yeah. And we're hanging out with, you know, new artists right now, incredible songwriter from this area. His name is McCartney Robinson. And we just had like, first little studio hang where it's like, alright show. Me. What you got, kid? And he's like, you know, going through. 1012 songs and you know, like all of them. He's like, yeah, no, I get it. No, that's awesome. That's awesome. Saving this idea for last that it was just like you know, it's like you're sitting there like you don't want to jump in. Maybe like just too quick. And then it's like this last idea was like, alright, we gotta hang with.
This right now.
And came up with this really cool live demo, just like you know. In this. And maybe like an hour and a half hang, you know, like, so those are the types of people that like we, you know, just love hanging out with and, you know. People, especially like when they come in here and they're just like, oh wow, it's like they're thinking about what this can do kind of for themselves. But the people that like we like, really gravitate to are the ones that see that this is, like, this collaborative ecosystems. Like, what can I do for somebody else? And like, when somebody comes in here with, like, that kind of attitude?
It's like you weren't going anywhere, you know. What you were saying, right? Here so.
It's cool to hang with people like that. Caitlin Schmidt is another performer from this area that we've been hanging out in the studio with and like figuring out songs and, you know, working on tunes and stuff. Together. So it's. Yeah, it's incredible, man. I mean, there are so many talented people here that there's not enough hours in the.
Day to uh, you know?
Uh to do the work, but I feel like that's like when you do show up. And you've got the time together to do it. It's like. Getting it done and it's it's very focused thing that's like. Getting more and more concise and hopefully that just kind of continues. That way you know. Love to just be able to figure out that efficiency thing and you know, but when you were kind of doing everything here in house, it's like you know, I have to really remind myself to be patient sometimes. So it's all good problems to have.
So, well, you know, I I love how you. Describe recording sessions as a hang. With the artist and I, I get that vibe. When I'm in that room and being somewhat of a a fan of gear and studio equipment, I I. Love the quality of preamps? The quality of mics that you have and I like the sound of the room and I also like that it's so comfortable that it's it. You as a producer give the artist the feeling that they are just there for a hang. They're not. It's not like there's this red light that pops on them that like you're now on the clock. And start recording, yeah.
Yeah. On the flip side of.
That though you were mentioning the efficiency and and I'm wondering how rust gaze is evolving to to meet the needs both of your community, but also yourself. I mean, I think one of the hardest things for people in the music. Business it's a very difficult business to be in because. You either are. Selling yourself on the stage or you're selling coffee, you're selling beer. You're selling tickets, right? Or you're selling studio time. But how do you how do you transition to? This is my full time gig and I have to balance the needs of like. My artistic spirit that I I want to do this project, but I know this person doesn't have a whole lot of money or the people that you know you you may not be as jazzed about what they're producing, but they walked in with cash. You're you're. Yeah. Gotta pay the bills. So how do you as a producer and as a business owner? Manage that.
I am the worst person to talk to about this because.
You probably asked.
My wife about this too, because she's like.
When are you gonna take some of those? Cash paying gigs, you know.
No, it's that that balance is a very. It's a tricky thing, and it's definitely a very important thing. It's like whether. You are in my position or whether you are an artist coming in here to do that thing, going back to what you were saying about the environment, you know, kind of created in here. Thank you for saying that because I've been the. You know the kid on the other side working with people and you know, I've worked with people whose attitudes are like, it's my way or the highway and, you know, just kind of. Built the separation between like you and them kind of thing and I've worked with people who are like the exact opposite that. Kind of come in and become a member of the band or, you know, like, like I said, somebody that like, you feel like you've known all like your life. And to be, you know, to really be able to. I think express yourself in an honest way, you you kind of have to let your guard down. You know, like you can't be thinking about. You know, being honest and also like, you know. I guess like worrying about all these external things at the same time, like while you're you're trying to to put down a performance that's going to get captured, you know, so to make that environment. For me, you know, I I want to do it first and foremost because I know what it takes and then also too, we're hanging with people that it's easy to have that relationship with. And I think that that's why, you know, I'm selfish in terms of. You know. The limited amount of people that I work with, and I'm also kind of stupid for like not taking the cash stuff that like would probably.
Pay and you know so.
In those instances I'm I'm the last person.
To ask about that so.
But you know that's that's why you know. You you met. Our our great partner, David Antine, who's the businessman who allows me to be, you know, kind of. You know, thinking more with the heart than the brain. But you know, he's thinking with the brain sometimes. And it's like, you know, we it's a nice compliment to each other like, you know. Not it's not even compromise. You know? It's like just it's communication and it's, you know, being able to. See both sides of this weird coin that.
We're kind of developing so.
You know it's interesting because whenever we meet where I'm kind of wearing my lawyer hat, I I know that your wife is in the room and and Dave was in the room.
And and so.
It's like, OK, I know that there's a team, but it's really great to speak to the heart of that team. Because I I. Love your creative spirit and I know that you understand the artist side of it, and I think that's what makes the producer artist relationship really special. I think you're eliciting a good performance because. You you want the you want that genuineness, you want the the raw and the real. And I think. If, if I'm paraphrasing a little bit of what you're saying is allowing the business manager to handle some of the bookings in the in the financial side and allowing your wife a role in strategy and and thinking about it in terms of financials. Then kind of frees you up to be the artist and producer artist that you that you are, is that, is that a good some red scene?
That is that it it very, very yes. You know like and I think that. I think that you know that that same kind of worry that we try to lift from like the. Artists. It's like important. To do that across the board, you know, like when you are lucky to have a team like that with people that you can trust and realize what people's strengths are and realize you know how to complement each other. So I mean it's the same thing that goes with having you know, managers, booking agents. Attorneys, you know, like. You don't. You know, you don't want to be some kind of afterthought or back burner like on anybody's thing you want. You know everybody to be. Showing up with mutual love and respect, because that's the only way that you're going to inch something that seems like. Impossible, you know forward so yeah.
I I I'm glad you mentioned that because I I think a lot of people who are checking out this podcast for the first time or checking out the music business mentorship are are really wondering how is it possible to do what we do, how can we transition to a full time. Making a living from our creativity and it's a real journey and there's no one easy answer. And and the more people that I talk to on this podcast, the more experiences I have as an attorney for artists and musicians, the more I realize there's just not one way and everything is always changing. So sometimes it feels like you have to be everywhere doing everything all at once. And and I I know the kind of burnout that that. Can cause so. Let me ask you, how do you deal with that side of it? How do you deal with self-care and making sure that you can renew your creative spirit and and feel like this impossible task that you get up to do every day? Is is worth doing?
Yeah, no, for sure, man. Like, I mean, it sounds so cheesy, but it's like, you know, if you can take care of yourself and you. Your thoughts and your emotions and all like the things that kind of can become hurdles when you're taking on something like this. Then it does free up a lot of.
Ram and like a lot of like you.
Know energy to get stuff done. So I mean it's like so important and I wish I would have known this when I was a kid, you know? Like. But I think like. When you're young, like you're full.
Of like you know the. **** and the vinegar that.
Will keep you going through like whatever. But I mean, it's like so important to be able to. Unplug to be able to, you know like. Eat right. Sleep right. Meditate like you know. Have something outside of. The thing that you're constantly. Thinking about that can like take you away from it a little bit. And you know that's. That's really what? You know that along with like you know. The luck that we have working with the people that we do because like I said again, it's not. Like I'm clocking in, you know, and like, but you know, you are burning mental energy and you are burning physical energy. So it's like, you know, having to remind myself that sometimes.
When, like the days get long or.
Things are like, you know, you look at the calendar and it's like man. There's no, you know, there's no day on here that doesn't have.
A dot you. Know which is.
A blessing sometimes. You know it's, you know, it's ultimately a blessing. But no, I think you know just being able to. To unplug and recharge your batteries is just so important so.
You know, I've I've mentioned this. Yeah.
Eat your vegetables. Eat your vegetables. Get get some rest. You know, like church on Sundays. Whatever it.
Takes, you know.
Well, I mentioned I mentioned this to you. I think when we last spoke and and I've mentioned it quite a bunch lately, Bob Weir gave an interview a series of interviews in 2020. Two I think about and it was like to men's health and GQ. About how he's able to maintain his long term career and it was meditation working out and dedicating himself to a sense of purpose. And I think you've kind of perfectly encapsulated all of that. You've kind of maximized your skills and talents, dedicating yourself to a purpose that's. Yes, a studio and yes, it's to these artists careers, but it's also to the greater Lima community and to all of you know, bringing a a vibrant downtown. And and and creating a creative class and creative culture there in, in a city that otherwise would be just staring at the rust, you know, gazing at the rust, so to speak. So I think it's, I think it's amazing. I think what you're. Doing is like. Like the Wizards of Old Man, you're you're like the one bringing the magic to the town.
Bringing dude, it's alchemy. It really is, man. It's something out of nothing, you know, and it's like. Shoot, there's nothing else I'd rather be doing. And it's cool because, you know, get to meet cool people like you. We get to, you know, get together and. Talk about things that like we love and how to, you know. Help people do the thing that they love like.
Get out of town, man. Like. Who won the lottery? You know like.
Yeah, definitely blessed. Absolutely well. And I, I want to just say one more time how much I love everything that I've heard coming out of your studio. So that's a real testament to having good years, having talent having having. Gear that you know you know how to use and I I don't want people to think that they have to spend thousands and thousands of dollars to get a really good mic preamp. But you know, I don't think you have anything that you don't need. I think you have what you need. I don't think it it's cluttered or or you know I think you get a really good sound and you get. You elicit some really good performances, and that's that's a testament to you. How did you develop that skill to use the gear to? I mean, you were a road dog. And how did you transition to be a studio guy?
GarageBand and like you know, getting. Uh. Getting a Mac early on was like this. Understanding of, you know, looking at a console and not seeing like a million buttons, but just being like, OK, this is, this is what EQ is. This is what compression is. This is, you know what saturation is and you know to be done and you know this very kind of Fisher price kind of way that garage band is able to offer you. That's able to do the exact same thing as like Pro Tools or you know what I mean? Like. Obviously there's. Different. You know, things like that. But like on on the technical sense, it was really youtubing stuff. It was, you know. Getting you know, like tutorial videos and hanging out in the van and figuring out what you know, Ableton is made out of and logic is made out of but on. The more holistic sense of, you know, songwriting and stuff, it was just really being able to hang out with, you know, some really talented people that were very generous about their information and like their knowledge, you know, and I think the. You know it's it's weird because it's like this. Not it's this combination of this technicality, but also. I mean kind of woo too, you know, like, trying like, you know, how do you have a conversation with somebody you know and. Allow you know some some honesty to come through, whether it's in like lyric writing or like a performance and stuff. It's like you can't YouTube that I.
Don't think you know like.
So the microphones and like you know, like the mixing stuff, you know? Like that's all. That information is out there, but it's also, you know, this place is it's everything from, like the studio to like, you know. A therapist couch to being like, you know, party room. So you know, it's like kind of like all across the board, but. Yeah. And, you know, I've just been listening to music since I was a kid. So, you know, I I know what I like and. I try to get the most. It would be very easy for me to like take songs that are coming in here and like you know, kind of throw them in the direction that I think that they should go. But like, there's this communication that. I'd love of, you know, talking to somebody. Well, what the vision is and how you know, how do we reach this target together, you know, so it's like. You have to have. Some foundation of the vision where we know that we're going somewhere together and then, you know, if not, then it's like cool. Let's see what happens. Let's take this where it can kind of, you know, like maybe sometimes that doesn't necessarily have to be the case and we'll get there together. But yeah, it's just it's fun, man. You know, it's cool. Learning a piece of gear and like, you acquire something and all of a sudden, like, everything's, you know, feels like it's better, like, you know, like, so that stuff's fun. But you know, it's also very addictive.
So you have to be careful.
Yet don't get Gear acquisition syndrome. My God, I had a producer mentor of mine. Tell me it's not how many plugins you have. It's how many completed songs you have letters.
Exactly, dude. Like, you know, I think that that. When we were talking kind of a little bit about what you're doing with this mentorship program and stuff, it's like. You know, there's there's the business side of it, but there's also like this this other side too, like of, you know. How do you become efficient and how do you explain to people too, that you know there's there is this business side, you know, like one of my favorite books. I'm sure that you've. Hung with that. Real artist don't starve and like you know, I love the concept of like, really trying to. Like squash, the notion of like the starving artist, right. And for me, I think I gave myself those excuses before, you know. But it's like, you know. In terms of like putting in the time and taking your craft seriously and sharpening and honing like your skills, you know and. There's something within us that, you know, I think that human nature. It's like, well, I can never be that person. I can never like do that. But I think that if you at least have, like enough belief in yourself to put in the hour of the day, you know, then that will, you know, in the course of a few weeks, you see that you're able to finish those songs. You know, like, you see that you're able to kind of like, have this thing. So I think what you're doing is great, man. I feel like it's going to help a lot of people and whatever we can do to help, please let us know because you know, I'd love to be part.
Of the the journey, I really appreciate that certainly. It you know. I think you hit on a lot of really good things there. Number one, you you said, you know, learning to have a conversation. And learning, I think learning to have a conversation. Is a real art form, I think, not thinking of the things that you want to say while they're talking, letting someone speak. You know, I think that makes you a better producer. And the fact that you mentioned that means you're hearing what they're giving you, what they're saying, what they're expressing with their song before you decide. You know, it's like someone. Who gets a? A A plate of food from a chef and then immediately put salt on it before they've even tasted it. You know you have this projection of what it is, and if you're doing that then you're not really hearing what it what it is or what it could be. So I think that as a producer, that's an amazing skill. But I also think you touched on something that I just. Realized as we were talking and that's one of the benefits of this podcast, is being able to talk at length about the process. You know, when you're an artist and and and certainly I've spent a lot of time behind the fret board. I I'm trying to teach myself piano now and I'm I'm exploring different YouTube tutorials and I've got some apps and and. I'm you know, I've always loved the piano and I love it for theory stuff, but I'm not good enough on the piano to go out and sing and play a show on. Beats. I can play all night long on guitar, bass, maybe saxophone on a few tunes. I I can play a number of different instruments. But to sit there and, like, get my hands to really learn a piece of music. You know, it's it's hard, especially as an adult to kind of put yourself in that I've got to put the 10,000. Hours in but I. Think that the transition. That's so hard for artists is that you've spent so much time. Doing something that to by all accounts by other people's metrics is not generating revenue. It's not generating anything. It's generating self improvement, you know, and it's not even like working out where you know you can see the muscle tone it's it's it's building muscles that can't be seen. It's building an expression and a skill set. That isn't immediately causing gratification or your financial gain. So artists are so used to doing something. It gives them self improvement. For no money that then they get into a habit of doing things for no money, and real artists don't starve. That's a great book, a great quote and and ultimately if you understand that what you're doing is, you're perfecting your craft like the craft of songwriting, getting up and working at it every day, not waiting for inspiration. To strike you, but to work at it, to build so that you can then have something to offer and then creating that exchange between your fan base and your wallet, yeah.
Yeah, you're good.
Yeah, you're giving yourself, but you've gotta create a space for them to your fans to give back to you. To sustain this this thing you know.
Exactly. Exactly. So you know, it's like I talk to people that that have, like, the notion and it's like, OK, if you can, like realize. That you know you like on whatever like level of talent or skill set or like whatever, you still possess something that, like allows you. To have like an output of your thoughts, feelings and emotions, and a lot of people don't have that right. Like you see people walking around and they're just like, ohh like it's because like, they don't have this, it's it's a blessing really. Like. So if you can think about it like that, then it's not like, oh, I have to sit down, do this. Like, I get to do this. And I've got some interest in doing. This you know.
Right.
And when you put that time in as as an artist, as a songwriter, as like a musician, ultimately like you, just you, you're. You're figuring what is the most genuine expression of yourself and how do I get better at that? How do I get better at? Defining my thoughts and my feelings, whether it's through lyrics, melodies, riffs, you know, like pieces, so you know that thing should. You know, it should feel like playing. More than it should feel like working, right? But then after like you've let this thing out of you, right? Yeah. Then kind of this responsibility for that kind of takes place where it's like, OK, do I just let this sit on a hard drive? You know, it's like these different levels. The first thing is like getting it off your chest. Getting it off your back then the second level is figuring out how do I find a a community of people that aren't like you're not looking at them like fans or like walking $20 bills, that's like. You know, hopefully like minded people that are going to recognize what it is that you're doing and like that first layer of like, you know, getting the thing out to the second layer of finding somebody that can like absorb that thing and then maybe it helps them in a way or you know, even if it's you know, a party jam. With friends and it's like setting the tone for like, you know, a really nice time. You know, if it's like something like that. Like, if it's helping somebody with a problem, if it's like that kind of thing. It's like if you can look at it like that, it's not like. It it, it doesn't feel like slimy to like, sell yourself, you know, like, because you're not. It's like, how do you find like minded people that are gonna understand what it is that you're doing and when you can connect? With people like that. That level. And then it it can. It builds in the most natural way you know, and that's a hard thing to explain to people. It's a hard thing for me to do, too. Like when I'm like, online and, like, thinking about social media and stuff like. But I also see people that are doing it in this very cool, honest way. And I think that, you know, like when. We're talking about people talking to people that we work with and it's like, you know. To to be able to build a a base of supporters, you have to engage with them so. Part of your work is figuring out how do you do that in an honest way that doesn't feel icky.
You know.
Yeah, that aligns with your values.
Yeah, yeah, definitely. And I think that that's, you know, that's just as important as putting in the time. Whatever your skill is, you know, like whether it's songwriting or guitar playing or, you know, like producing anything. Like so you know, it's like, I mean, I love Steven Pressfield. I love work of art. They say that one right, I.
Was heard of war? Yeah, war of.
Art, right? Yeah.
Because there's like that thing that's like, OK, there's time to be like. Creative and to like, let the Muses visit you and for you to like, do it. And then like there's like, you know, like the editing sense. And there's also like this, this whole other side of like, what are you going to do at that time that you just like? Had this output and you know we're able to shape it. And now you have, I think for, you know, lack of a better term once it kind of gets to this like package thing. It's kind of a product. Now right like. Yeah, but this is birth from you. This is birth. From your thoughts, from your your feelings. And like your emotions. So it's like you know. How do you continue to ship? You know you like.
Yeah, well, you know, there's a couple of. Different examples from from the sort of the the upper echelon of of music that that I've seen that really kind of inspired me. And one is. The story that it's in the history of the Eagles documentary where Glenn Frey is talking about living above Jackson. Around and I didn't. Know how to write songs, he says. And then. I heard every. Morning at 9:00 AM, Jackson would sit at the piano and I'd hear him bang out the first verse. And every day he would, you know, do that for an hour, and then he'd make some tea, and then he'd go work at the first verse into the second verse, and he'd play it 20 times and maybe make some slight changes. And then he. Do it again and and and that that sort of grind is something that I think it gets a little lost in in. In the. Creative process people don't always think about how hard it is to kind of come up with something that's really amazing, but then there's the other thing. And that that's sort of aiming at your higher purpose. I I watched a documentary that David Letterman went to Ireland to meet with Bono on the Edge and. They did a. Little performance and a reimagining of their songs. And it was sort of the start of what became Bono's autobiography. And then he did a solo show at the Beacon Theater. But watching them talk about how did this whole thing come about? And really, they went through a real crisis of faith. They were, they were trying to. Talk about religion without talking about religion. They were trying to live up to their their ideals in a time of war between Northern Ireland and. The British and and the. Just a real time of trouble and they felt like what is their higher purpose? And some people told them to give up music because they thought it was frivolous. They said this rock'n'roll thing is not cool, but then they sort of the way that they characterized it in this David Letterman documentary. Was that they kind of stumbled upon this this song, the The Bloody Sunday song that really kind. Took everything they had been doing and coalesced it into kind of a mission. And you can see, I mean, Bono took that and has run with it, probably to the annoyance of some of his bandmates at times. But but it's amazing to see a group of people dedicate themselves to a higher purpose, using their skills and talents to the best of their ability. And I think. Regardless of what your taste in music. You can I I've had had friends over the years who don't really like the edges guitar playing or they don't really like Bono for his political things or whatever criticisms you might throw at a a particular band, or you 2IN general. It's undeniable that they've reached the pinnacle of the business. They're still doing it. After a very long period of time, they've been very successful at it, so they are a model of success. They are a model of using what they've got to change the world. And I I mean I think. That's back to the wizardry thing. I think all of us, as as artists are, have a responsibility. I I think that the wizard brought the magic to the town, but it also was kind of the medicine man, the healer, the, you know, I think we bring a little bit of. Something special to the? World and and. You, as you said, it's your responsibility then to figure out what you do with it after that. And I I admire those folks who can bring it together and then put it out there for for a positive benefit, for not just themselves, but for the world.
Yeah, man. And I think I mean it. There's a huge pressure. Like when you think about it's like you see, you know, throughout the course of history, obviously it's like there's always like troubles and problems and stuff, but it's like, you know, we're living through ours and you see that and it's like, well, what the hell? Can I do you know?
Like I just.
And and for me it was like, well, what can I do like and it's not. Anywhere else, it's like who? You know, what can I help with around me right now? And who can I help around me right now? And I think that when you can do that, it takes that pressure off that world thing and and you 2's case, right it was. Like their snapshot of what was happening in their world at that time, and to be able to grow from something like that. Too Bono being, you know, like this. Like world traveling like, you know, more than just, like philanthropist. You know what I mean? Like, just, you know, drawing attention to issues and like. You know, advocating for causes and stuff like that. It like starts with just looking around you. Right? Like that's that's the first.
Step you know.
Yeah, to to hopefully growing to a place, but it's like, you know, if if that intention is there and and you're able to affect the people in your vicinity in a. Positive way, you know like that doesn't that doesn't that feeling can't get old, you know, like and then hopefully that thing just kind of grows, you know, hopefully that circle grows and, you know, influence of of positive you know change can kind of. You know, infiltrate different places in different ways. And you know. So that's the goal.
Yeah. You know, I think you're a living example of that, man. You know, you're you're really helping your community and you're doing it in a super cool way with the skills and talents you have. And I think it's awesome. So I I applaud you.
What do you what do you?
I applaud you, Sir.
I applaud you.
See yourself doing in the next year or two. And and what? What's your vision for the next 5 to 10 years? What's? What's on the horizon?
I mean, you know, like if we can continue doing like what we're doing for as long as possible, like we're going to be psyched, you know, to continue. Developing, you know, and hanging with the artists that we have been, you know, have been family for years, but also meeting new people. UM. One of the things, and we've talked about this, you know, like early on when this thought kind of started formulating of what this could be, it was like, you know. For to be able to to develop and and kind of get some people out there from this area that then younger people can look at and. Say ohh this thing that I love isn't impossible because that you know this guy that's in front of me. You know, I was able to do that thing, you know, that has always been the goal. It's like, what can we do that can soak into the soil and continue. This thing that can can you know, through osmosis almost, you know, like rubbing off like on, you know, inspiration for other people so. It would be such a cool thing for us and, you know, trying to get it off the ground. But to be able to do like some kind of school of rock performance thing here in town that can draw all these different facets of, you know, entertainment and art kind of together like in a place that can, you know, be a resource for. Anybody but, like, really kind of, you know, focus in on on, you know, middle school, high school age kids that have this notion. And and especially with kind of like the diminishing of like arts and stuff and like public schools, it's like, you know, for me, you know, that's one of the reasons why I love going to school and like, when that thing's taken away. It's like what? The hell am I? Doing here, you know, like so to be able. To provide that. Thing and hang with local schools and get like. You know, find the those those people that are interested in that.
Thing and.
Kind of help shape that would be a really cool thing to be doing in 5-10 years for sure, hopefully sooner, hopefully sooner.
I have I applaud that, that.
Yeah. No, that's great, man. That's that's excellent. I I applaud that so much. I, as I might have told you, I I LED a band that was primarily young people for a couple of years. That I I love that mission. I think that the music business mentorship kind of grew out of that experience and certainly practicing law and seeing what people have done that causes a whole bunch of problems. You know, my goal is to try to teach some folks so that they avoid all those problems and the, the the target audience of this podcast. And my my courses and and the coaching program is is really the 19 year old. Me. You know, if I. Could grab that kid who's just coming out of high school. You know, you've kind of been forced. To do this thing that your parents said to do for all these years. And now you're kind. Of at the cusp of adulthood. What are you going to do with your life? And I didn't want to do anything but play music. Now I I had to take a meandering journey to get where I am here as I think a lot of us do. But if I could. Have the the me of now talking to the me of then. I might have steered him in a little different direction, so I'm I'm hoping to do that for others and and I can see that same spirit in you. And I know you will. I think it's. I think it's really amazing.
I appreciate it.
Let's talk if I can. If I just want to ask because I've I've kind of asked this question of a lot of folks and this will be our our last question, then we'll, we'll wrap it up. But if you. Had a magic wand and you could solve any problem either in the music business in general or in your particular music business. What what would you do with that, that power?
So and hit the lights we. We get to experience a lot. The scene that we were in was the one, you know, the the stuff that we grew up listening to the labels that like we dreamt of being on, like, the the types of bands. There was this, like, very grassroots DIY camaraderie thing where, you know it. It wasn't about record sales for like a label to keep like a band on a label kind of thing. You know what I mean? Like you didn't have to sell X amount of records. It was more of, you know, just the the love of that act and what they were doing. I think that. As the band continued and like we kind of grew from that independent scene and like you see, like the true belly and nature of the beast, you know, and it's like this thing that, you know, like any industry especially like in entertainment, you're really just kind of. Ringing out the talent until there's nothing else left and then looking for the next person in line that's willing to sacrifice themselves to like these.
You know these gods.
That was something that was really discouraging for sure early on and, you know, to see what that was, it was like, man, that's that's kind of not what we signed up for. You know, it's like. I think that you know, if I had, like, a magic wand. It would. It would kind of figure out what what's the, what's the way that you can do something like that sustainably where you aren't really taking advantage of the artist, where the artist can survive, where the artist can, you know, thrive and not have to do things that they don't want to do. Like and can just live, and you know, I don't know what that is. I know that like as labels started losing money because of, you know, Napster and Limewire and then like, ultimately stream. Doing a lot of those guys at the tops, paychecks never really diminished, right? It was like, like who? Who can we get rid of here to make sure that my paycheck doesn't change, you know? Then, like, the 360 deals start happening or it's like, what else can we take? You know, like, it just seemed like. And nobody had the right idea to come in and save this thing. And like, you know, do it like in a way with like integrity. You know, and it just keeps *********** to now this point where it's like somebody can have millions of streams and you know get checks for seven cents. It's like, wow, it's like you really want these computers to start making this stuff for us.
Or something, you know, like you just like.
Want to figure out what's the easiest way to do it? So I mean the the coolest thing that that can happen is somebody comes up with something. Whatever.
That thing is, but you're the one with.
The with the magic wand. Scenario so.
So let me ask you, what is what is that? You know, how do you? How do you?
Well, in many ways.
How you save a burning ship?
You know like.
In many ways, the music business mentorship is here to help guide folks into having a self-sustaining creative career, and I think. That one of the answers has to be in this day and age is diversification and I think you've got to be able to. Understand and navigate the world of e-commerce so that you're focused every day on making a sale. As someone who ran a venue for a while and and dealing with business partners who just saw music as sort of a marketing expense, it was like they wanted to cut the cost and yet we were saying no. We need to have a show on Tuesday night. We need to have a show on Monday night. We need to have shows every night because that's our brand. That's our mission and it's the daily sales. If we can take a daily Tuesday from a, you know, an $800 sale night to a $2500 sale night because we put a band on the stage. And if the difference between what we. Made and you know. What we had to pay the band was. Not we netted more profit to to bottom line it then it's worth doing and and it's worth doing for a lot of different reasons and it's worth doing because this is a diverse crowd and the Monday night crowd is different than the Tuesday night crowd and it's a community that you're building and and building that community on a daily basis is really what helps sustain. An individual artist. So you. You may say, well, I don't really want to do the Tik toks. I really don't want to do as many Instagram. Grams. But ultimately it's just creating a pathway for that exchange of energy. So if you're if if your thing is to do a particular style of of song and maybe you know you're you, there's only so much you can put out of that kind of content. Well, maybe utilize your TikTok. Platform to do something in a humorous way or to switch it up so that you're you're using Instagram for more graphic design stuff, but you're staying within. The the value system and the ecosystem of your brand and your artist brand and also I think thinking about things like a brand or or a message and trying to continually foster that. I think it's easier when you have a purpose like you know the bono. For example, like if everything that he does is is focused on. On being a better band and putting out a better song and then using that song to convey a message of peace and hope and love and in. A better world. It becomes easier to kind of do the heavy. Lifting of OK, well, I've got to, I've. Got to put out another Instagram. Post today and and I think that. You know, creating this, this conscious career in a world where, yes, the streaming revenues are drying it up, you've got to shift to. You've got to shift to another Ave. of making your money, and that is back to fan sales is never going to go away. And yeah, you know, using these platforms, if your whole goal is to just get TikTok famous or to get a million streams on Spotify, you're not aiming at a higher purpose and. Someone out there listening might say, well, that's easy for you to say. You know, you're not doing it, you're a lawyer, you know? Well, I that's just an example of my own diversification, cause I still play guitar. I still write songs. I still produce tracks. I have songs repped by agencies and I'm still trying to pitch them for ads, TV and film. I'm now trying to teach other people how to do that. Meanwhile I'm doing it. Myself. So.
Proofs in the pudding. It's like, yeah, definitely.
I mean, I like I don't. Pretend that this business is easy. It's not easy if if you want to be in where money, you know, making money is your goal, then go into finance or banking where they have all the money already. If you want to be an artist, where you synthesize the world around you and you convey a message and you maximize your skills and talents. And the service of your community. That a community that you created a tribe, that you are the leader of. You've just got to take on some of these responsibilities. You may not have wanted to or may not even have imagined that you that you did, but no, there's no, there's no substitute for creating that connection one-on-one with with a fan and.
Definitely. And I think that that's the coolest thing about, you know, like the technology that we do have nowadays is the way that you are. Able to to go out there and find that that community and and build that community and. Like you know, but I I also miss like the weirdness of, like, the 80s and like the 90s. Like where you didn't know, you know, like what, like? Like Frank Black, like the singer of the Pixies, was eating for breakfast. You know, you didn't even know what the Pixies looked like, you know, like, unless, like you saw, like, a press photo and some grainy like, you know, like scene or something like that, you know, like. So like the you know there. It's it's such like a necessary thing to be able to continue, but like there's some mystery like thing that's like, you know, kind of like unveiled about, you know, like maybe it's too much of that. Accessibility. You know, like maybe that's like what it?
Well, you know, I think.
Right.
There's something to be said for reserving something for yourself and for your. Family, I mean. I think ultimately we all understand and as future generations will understand that the that the social media world is just a carefully curated vision of yourself that you're projecting to the world. It's not necessarily who you really are and getting trapped in thinking that's who you really are can lead to overinflated egos and some problems if you take it the wrong way, you know.
That's and I mean, that's gonna be such a great. Like packet of advice to to include and stuff that that you're doing and it's like constant reminders of that thing so that people don't get swept up into this synthesized version of themselves. And then, you know, like.
Lose touch with the reality and like you know.
But also have the confidence to get out there and put themselves out there in a way. But like, isn't icky and feels like he could be very, like, honest and and genuine. So yeah, rope. It's a tightrope block for sure, like.
It really is, but it's it's there's there's a double edged sword to sort of everything that we're talking about here with the whole social media world and the and the, the place that we are, there's. There's a New York Times article that just came out. It was an editorial piece where. The writer was saying that there's been the lowest number of albums and new new movies, and and a lot of movies that we see now are rehashes of older ideas. Even this brilliant Barbie movie is really taking a concept that's that's much older and repackaging it for a new generation. But I think that. That there is. A lot of creativity going on in the social media world and I think that it it it sort of hasn't been codified by some of the people who. You know, look at in the numbers of albums released, I think that all the daily creativity and the micro creativity that goes into creating and curating your own. Profile is is is an opportunity I think like yes, streaming numbers have gone down, but it's also an opportunity to discover stuff because you know, in days gone by in the 80s you you would only see an album on the shelf. For a limited amount of time, unless it was selling, you know, then it would just go out and you wouldn't be able to find that anywhere. So now you. Can kind of find. The the body of world's knowledge and the world's music at your fingertips on your phone, which is a tremendous opportunity for growth and culture and all that. But it does take a certain sort of sophistication to kind of say. All right, I'm not the person that I'm putting myself out there. The on but but but a certain amount of that is authentic and that and the authenticity does engage with fans. And there's a balance between authenticity and familiarity. Breeds contempt like you don't wanna see what my hair looks like in the morning. My wife tells me I have 3 looks. I've got. The the look right out of the shower. There's the look when. I wake up the look out of the shower and then the look. After my hair kind of has softened for a while for. The day.
You know it's.
Yeah, but the look that I that I spent 8 hours every night curating with my hair. That's probably not on social media, very.
Often you know what I.
Mean I spent. A lot of time working on that hairstyle. Just for one an audience of. One my my wife.
Feel and.
Feel like you're coming up with some really engaging content though. If you showed the different stage.
I might I. Might have to. I might have to.
But you know, as as I as I think about this, there's a a a band that I'm gonna have on the podcast called the crutches. And they're from Chagrin Falls. OH. They they at least.
OK.
Claim to be. Because they're all animated their entire persona.
Is I love it, man. That's insane. That's absolutely. That's so cool. Like so.
Anime, yeah.
So it's like it's taking a real band and then putting projecting their vision of and and they they're they're. They're all cartoon characters.
Student like.
And I want to meet the person who who's who's birthing this idea because you know, I mean, like, that stuff's exciting, you know, like. I was having a conversation with Dave yesterday. We were. Watching some stuff on YouTube and you know, some something this like concert film made by this artist whose name is Dijon. 25 minute Long Lake live concert thing took the concept of like a live concert footage thing and just completely flipped it on its head and it's like this way that we were just like floored by. And you know. I was like thinking because of, you know, being on the inside of of making something like this. What the dynamic is with like the idea. The person that has to go to somebody else to tell them how this crazy idea, it's like, I don't know if this is going to work and that person being like F it let's do it anyway, let's see what happens, you know and like man like, that's the kind. That's the kind of stuff that, like, just, you know, gets me going when somebody's like, I got this crazy idea. Like, let's do it. Like, you don't even know what the.
Idea is like I. Don't care. Let's just do it.
You know, like that kind of concept, the stuff that I love. So like, I genuinely love hearing some some crazy cool. Ideas. Was that like and I wanted to know that person. I want to know what makes them tick. I want to make. I want to know what gives them the gall to think that they can do. Just through that, that inspires me to like, you know, really follow those crazy ideas when I have them. So I I love that.
Well, yeah, I will. The crutches dot the dot crutches dot official on Instagram is hailing from Chagrin Falls. OH, the band consists of.
Please send me that stuff.
Rigby, Stone, Elliot, Rooster, Arthur, Duke, Oswald, Cannon, Doc, and they are an animated band. And they.
Wait, did is Doc just like single name? Just.
Doc, like every like.
Is that one person like OK?
There's three people, and Duke Oswald Cannon is Doc DFC.
OK. OK. OK, OK. OK. OK. I thought like everybody had, like, you know, first and last names. And then just Doc, is the drummers.
But shared.
It's Rigby. Rooster and Doc are the folks in the band. It's it's a it's a great concept. It really is. I I've heard some of their music. It seems pretty cool, but we're not here necessarily to talk about them. We're here to talk about you and your stuff. What is the next thing? Tell me when the next. Block party is in the next event at the Legacy Arts Center and how often do you do them? And let's put on a plug for coming out.
That's for sure.
So, so legacy arts, we we throw this party every year on Main Street in Lima, OH USA. We just celebrated our 4th 1 Great Acts, great attendance. You know, it's like one of those things where. It's like. You know you. You put in the work you do the thing and like. It's through just the. The continued occurrence of that the people start trusting it, you know, like it's like, OK like, you know, we see your name now. OK, like we know that this is something worth coming out to. And it's really just about putting on the type of party that we would want to go to, you know, kind of selfishly, like we're using these resources to book bands that we love to curate artists that we love, you know, to like, you know, even with like, food and and drink and, you know, other programming that kind of goes on. It's just like this is. The type of thing that we want. To experience. So let's do that and let's let's find the same people that are into the same stuff. And it's been really cool to be able to continue that so next year, next September, look out for the legacy Art St. party. Is that going to be 20? 24 yeah.
2024 next year, so yeah.
So in terms of the venue here, the bar purple fee. Is actually going to be moving into the back, so once that happens and that gets settled, then we're going to figure out what the events are going to be going on back there. But in terms of looking out for releases from Rust Gaze, Kevin Ash has got elevated single coming out. Leave November 3rd. Two singles coming out on deck from Jasmine Gore, DL Burden. We are going to have at least an EP coming out, let's say by spring time next year and then all the fun people that we're meeting along the way that are coming out of the woodwork so. So definitely check us out and follow these artists. You are not going to be upset. That you did. And yeah, come hang out in Lima if you know, look us up. Legacy Arts Building, 230 N Main St. probably here. Ask for Omar. I'm in my dusty little corner of the universe and. Come hang out.
That's amazing, man. It really is. You've got a really great thing going on, Omar. I love it. I I I particularly love all the music you just mentioned. And I really do enjoy, whether it be an indoor hanging at the in the space, in the back of the building there or the the street party, which I have yet to make it to. But I want to. I'm planning to put that on my calendar, so that's that's something for September of next year. But I really my hats off to you man. It's really cool, really great stuff. And thanks very much for being on the music Business Ventures podcast.
Anytime, man. Thank you, John. Seriously. Like this is, you know, anytime that we just have a chance to to chat it up and and and catch up is is really special. But the fact that you know hopefully you know there's been some little nugget of truth or something in here that somebody picks up on that you know. Allows them to continue doing what it is that they're doing and allows them to, yeah, and grow and. To be a part of, that's really cool. So honestly, whatever we can. Do please let us know of course course, Brother.
Thanks man. I appreciate it.
Audio file
20231109_MBM_Podcast_EP1_OmarZehery_1AMusic Bus.mp3

Transcript
00:00:12
Well, ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the music business mentorship. We're here with my very good friend Omar Zahiri from Rust Gaze Records in Lima. OH, and we're going to talk about a bunch of things today. But first of all, let me just start off by saying thank you.
00:00:29
Omar for being here.
00:00:30
Taking time out of your busy schedule and talking to us about your music business.
00:00:36
Why don't we just start off with telling me who you are? Tell everybody what you do and and how you got started.
00:00:43
Yeah, man. Well, First off, thank you. Thank you for having me on here. And uh, you know, thank you for just right off the bat. Thank you for your help for the last few years and just kind of I think a cool way of getting this kicked off is maybe talking.
00:00:59
But you know not to put you on the spot or like, embarrass you about how gracious you were the first time we met. And, you know, just getting a cold call out of the blue. But I remember finding out about you like on social media a.
00:01:20
You know mutual friend was like I need a.
00:01:22
Lawyer like you're like.
00:01:25
What's up? Like getting like in the comments and I'm like, well, that's cool. Like, you know, this dude seems pretty legit. And I remember checking out your stuff and.
00:01:32
I was like.
00:01:33
Wait, this? You know this gentleman's an attorney?
00:01:37
He is a musician. He's a sound guy. He's a light dude, and he's involved in like non profit like stuff for like all of the arts.
00:01:46
I was like what?
00:01:46
The heck. Like where, where?
00:01:48
Have you been all of our?
00:01:49
Lives kind of thing and took a a nice drive down from Lima to Cincinnati and you hung out. I remember having my little Bluetooth speaker.
00:01:57
And I was like, playing your songs. I was like, now listen to this one, man. Now listen to this one. And you're very gracious and cool about your time and, you know, just been given some great advice to us ever since. So I just wanted to thank you and.
00:02:11
You know, say it's it's it's been really cool hanging out.
00:02:15
Dude, it's it's totally my pleasure. I really, I can't stress that enough. I mean, you bring a lot to the table, man. You, you've got a lot of creative ideas. You're working with great people. You've got great energy. There's really something special that's happening there in that studio and and everything you've got.
00:02:31
Going on with from the.
00:02:32
Block parties to the collaboration you've got.
00:02:36
With with the comic book store up front and everything, I mean it's it's a scene that I want to be a part of. I just wish we were a.
00:02:42
Little bit.
00:02:42
Closer together, you know.
00:02:43
Yeah. Yeah, man, yeah, we'll we'll get there. We'll get there. We can. Uh, I feel like transportation. Like, was it? Teleportation is like, right, like around the corner. So yeah, we can kind of bridge that gap and make Lima in Cincinnati more sister cities than you know, than they are.
00:03:03
I mean, they should be. They really. They really should be.
00:03:06
Well, I'll tell you, man. Cincinnati was like one of the first big cities that like me and my buddies, started going to for shows.
00:03:14
And like I would steal my mom's car and be like, hey, I'm going into Dave's house. And you met Dave outside the door, right? I'd be like, I'm just gonna go over to Dave's house and, you know, then we would go to bogarts. And then, like, you know, the car would get.
00:03:21
Yeah, I did.
00:03:22
Mean, yeah.
00:03:30
Towed and have to call my mom and like.
00:03:33
Ohh man, I'm not at Daves house.
00:03:38
I'm in Cincinnati with your car and it's towed.
00:03:41
I'm sorry, but no, that was Cincinnati has always been like a very important town for us and, you know, Lima.
00:03:51
But they're they're really.
00:03:55
Hasn't there wasn't much going on when I was a kid, you know? And I think that all of this kind of stems from that where it's like.
00:04:05
I can't wait to meet people that are into the same freaky stuff that I'm into that like, you know, like we can hang and and make stuff that like we all really kind of believe in and you know, that's.
00:04:21
Kind of what the philosophy was growing up was like, I can't wait to get the hell out.
00:04:26
Of here you know.
00:04:29
Was lucky to kind of get out and realize that home is what you make it.
00:04:34
And you know all the things that I used to look at this area for as being like detrimental to what I wanted to do. Like, I realize like now this is like an opportunity because there are people that are into the, you know, weird stuff that we're into and nerding out like, you know, and the type of stuff that we're nerding out, you just kind of have to find them and.
00:04:54
Yeah, it's been really cool. Just you know.
00:04:58
Kind of.
00:05:00
Creating something with people that you know.
00:05:03
Believe in the same things.
00:05:04
That we do. Uh.
00:05:06
Well, how did you get started in your in your musical journey? I mean, I I can totally identify. First of all with the wanting to get out of here. I mean, Cincinnati, when you're a kid, feels like it's it's the the biggest small town and you just want to run to the big city. But.
00:05:21
Then you get to New York or LA and you're like, holy crap, I I can't play that many gigs this in a weekend. It's it takes an hour to get anywhere. Like, I can't. I just can't do what I can do in my hometown. And yeah, so. And and it's it's just funny that Lima is like on that two hour radius where I tell people all the time to create, you know, an hour.
00:05:41
To two hour.
00:05:42
Strategy of building your fan base and and Lima's right there and you've got now a studio, a stage.
00:05:49
Block parties. You've got all these collaborators. But how did all that kind of start for you? I mean, you were in a band and.
00:05:57
And Dave, I think was in that.
00:05:58
Band, right? Yeah.
00:05:59
Yeah, exactly. Like we got started young, you know, like meeting, finding our own, like in middle school and stuff. And like, you know, then playing music together through high school.
00:06:11
UM.
00:06:12
I was putting on shows in my parents basement. I met, you know, future bandmates by like dudes who were just like walking through my kitchen. Like kind of giving my parents the what's up like.
00:06:23
Yeah, and they're.
00:06:23
Like you know, those guys like? No, not.
00:06:25
Really. Three years? That's cool.
00:06:31
But yeah, so that's kind of, you know, that's how it started and you know out of high school.
00:06:36
Made the decision. You know, it's like, OK, I think that, you know, at this point, we kind of know what it would take to get up to like the next tier, which is just out of town. You know, like, that was our biggest goal.
00:06:51
And formed this band with guys I grew up with and you know, it was kind of the intention was known early. It was like, alright, if we dedicate ourselves to this, then we can see this come through the other side and I mean this was now, you know like 20 years ago, which is a completely different beast than it is today.
00:07:13
Because back then.
00:07:15
You know.
00:07:17
For us to build little pockets of fan bases across the US, you had to jump into van, and if you didn't have the representation, then you know it was like, OK, we're booking our own shows. We are releasing our own material. We are making our own merchandise, we are like.
00:07:37
Managing ourselves and our.
00:07:41
Everybody like knew what was going into it and it wasn't like one of us carrying the rest. It was like everybody firing all cylinders, quitting school, quitting work, you know, really just kind of unplugging from the lives that we had here, to jump in a van.
00:08:02
And do that and you know we were.
00:08:06
We were self booking maybe like nine months out of the year. You know with those other couple months, not like you know.
00:08:13
A week here, a week there and you know, doing that for a few years.
00:08:20
Let let me just interrupt you real quick. So if our listeners are are checking out Omar's page and and everything you can actually check out hit the lights it's you can find them on Wikipedia. You can find them on.
00:08:33
All the streaming services.
00:08:36
You guys have let's I'm checking out how many records there's from 2006 to 2015, you were putting out stuff pretty regularly, looks like and EP's from 2004 all the way up.
00:08:49
To 2018, looks like you put out a single in 2018.
00:08:56
So hit the lights. Was the name of the.
00:08:58
Band, right? Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And.
00:09:02
Yeah, man. It's like we just kind of, we knew that we were gonna have to dedicate ourselves to it. But also it's like this is.
00:09:09
Like what we wanted, you know? So, I mean, like, touring down to Florida in the middle of summer in a van with no AC.
00:09:17
And you know.
00:09:18
No place to sleep. So, like Walmart, parking lots.
00:09:22
Like you know.
00:09:23
Really having like rely like on the kindness of strangers and like, you know, that kind of thing like, you know, I think that we all knew it's like OK this is this is what it takes to kind of get through like the other side and with kind of three years of that kind of really dedicated time.
00:09:41
Spent to that, we started finding.
00:09:46
Labels that we grew up listening and loving, like hitting us up and, you know, having conversations with these names on the backs of CD's that we've been looking at for years and stuff and putting faces to names like on, you know, CD jackets. And it was, it was really cool.
00:10:05
Like getting to play with bands that you know, we grew up loving and like, you know, inspiring us and really being able to check off, you know, boxes of of goals that like, you know, we wanted to accomplish and just doing it out of this place called Lima. OH.
00:10:26
Like so.
00:10:28
We did that for a few years and you know the like. Is it summer of 69? Is that like the one that's?
00:10:38
Like Bobby got married.
00:10:41
And like, you know, like talking about.
00:10:42
Yeah. Yeah. Right, right. Yeah. That's Ryan Adams. Yeah.
00:10:44
Right was that?
00:10:46
Bryan Adams. That's kind of how it happened. You know, like we, we had a good run and then you start getting older and like, you know, one of my favorite things in the whole time that we did hit.
00:10:59
The lights was.
00:11:03
The recording and hanging out and the creation and us getting in a room and, you know, loving a riff and turning that into like something that's like, OK, Now this is a song, you know, this is.
00:11:17
Uh, so I was really appreciated.
00:11:19
That thing we did some really cool like.
00:11:24
Production hangs and Co rate hangs in LA with you know, again people that I never would have thought I'd be like in the room with like when I was a kid.
00:11:33
And a lot of those people are like, hey, like you've got, like, these really great ideas. Like you should think about production. And in my head at that time, I was.
00:11:40
Like I'm a road dog. You know what? I.
00:11:41
Mean like there's?
00:11:42
No, like I can't figure out what all those.
00:11:45
Buttons on a.
00:11:45
Console does.
00:11:47
You know, I just play my guitar and write songs and, you know, like tour and. But that kind of gave me a goal, a target.
00:11:55
And kind of shoot for.
00:11:58
After you know.
00:12:00
I was able to kind of have time to focus on that. So when the band started to slow down, I came back home to Lima, started bartending and through that started kind of being acquainted with the local music scene again. And you know, very based in bar bands and cover bands.
00:12:22
But a lot of the, you know, the kids that were out there gigging those, uh, kind of cover bands and cover acts. And like we're also songwriters and.
00:12:35
You know, would slip in their original tunes in between covers, and I'd ask him be like, you know, who is that? What is that? So I got something I.
00:12:43
Wrote what are.
00:12:43
You gonna do?
00:12:44
With it, you know like and the most you know and everybody's like. Well, not, I don't know, just continue to play.
00:12:49
It for people.
00:12:51
You know, like with their backs turned and.
00:12:54
You know, drinking.
00:12:55
Beer and eating chicken wings over like the music that we're making. It's like, no, that's not. That's no.
00:13:00
Way to live. Ohh.
00:13:03
You know, that's kind of when.
00:13:06
The vision kind of come and start coming together for, you know, this little room that I started developing with, you know, just.
00:13:15
Really menial recording gear and the thing that I noticed about with like the people that I was meeting and booking was like, you know, how is it that you're doing this, you're writing this, you're writing this and you guys have never gotten in the same room.
00:13:28
Like done it together.
00:13:30
And it was real kind of like small potatoes type stuff that was just like local drama. That guy took my Thursday gig.
00:13:36
Type thing like you know.
00:13:38
It's like, Nah. Like, you got to think bigger and start using the studio as a space for these different musicians to kind of come in and collaborate and just right off the bat it was just kind of undeniable.
00:13:49
And I kind of saw it just all come together because I was like, everybody knew about my.
00:13:56
Passed in, you know, touring and traveling. And they're like, so when is it time for us to blow this popsicle stand? And that's like when it's like you don't, you know?
00:14:05
Like you stay here.
00:14:07
Develop your thing like you're obviously great at XY and Z, but maybe like there's some stuff that like you do need to work on, and let's figure out what that is together.
00:14:19
So that when you know you go to a place like Nashville or New York or LA or even Cincinnati or Columbus, like there are people waiting for you, you know, like you've done the work, they knew who you are.
00:14:35
For me too is kind of the selfish thing because I just like want it. You know, I didn't want these people.
00:14:39
To leave like, you know like.
00:14:41
And then like I realized, I was like, no, this is like a bigger problem. This is like brain drain. This is, you know.
00:14:49
Realizing that different towns that are of our size that are, you know, at risk of losing bright young people are actually doing something about it. So that's kind of where this, you know intention shifted to kind of poking the finger in the chest of people that you know should be hanging on and nurturing.
00:15:10
This kind of talent, you know, to like, create.
00:15:16
An environment that people want to come to, you know, like when you Google Lima. OH, unfortunately the worst things come up. So like, if I'm talking to somebody in economic development or the Chamber of Commerce and like, well, how do you see this going? I'm like, flood the algorithm with young people doing awesome stuff. You know, like people of all ages, people of all, like, you know, like.
00:15:38
When you do that, it's like you shift the the.
00:15:41
This like mentality, and especially if you're trying to, you know, what's like the lingo that they use, like improve the quality of life and yada yada.
00:15:50
Really, it's like they want young talent, you know, like young professional people to come and fill up these positions or whatever industries that we have here. But it's like, what's gonna really entice you about uprooting you and your family to come to Lima? OH, you know, like so that's, you know, where this thing kind of like we realize it's like, OK, this is like.
00:16:14
More than just recording some songs, it's like this is, you know, being able to plant a flag in the.
00:16:20
Ground for a place it.
00:16:21
You know, hasn't had a lot of pride in itself.
00:16:24
For years, like a lot of Midwestern towns that are kind of living that same thing but other places, our size and smaller are figuring out how to do it, you know, so it's like if we're catching up now, then we're already behind. So what are you going to do about it? Because this is what I'm doing.
00:16:42
You know, like I'm.
00:16:43
Providing nonprofit creative development for these area artists that like really have a chance of, you know.
00:16:51
Not only being able to make a living off their creativity, but like plant a flag in the ground for this area.
00:16:58
So that's, you know, really like we're lucky to know the people that we know because they're the ones that like.
00:17:06
Make it easy to do the work you know, because it doesn't feel like work. I know that you know that, right? It's like when you're.
00:17:12
Hanging out with.
00:17:12
Somebody. It's like we're we're accomplishing things. We're being like, you know, very efficient. And we're doing something special. But like, because we're doing it out of, like, love and respect, it's like, you know, we're just hanging.
00:17:23
Out and doing ********. So. So that's.
00:17:26
You know, in a nutshell, that's.
00:17:27
What we've been doing in Lima is.
00:17:30
Hanging out with cool people developing stuff, you know the studio.
00:17:35
Turned into.
00:17:37
You know we.
00:17:39
All of a sudden we had like a collective of people and they, you know, are hanging out on each other, stuff through mutual loves and like, respect building things. And we just had this, like, undeniable pile of songs. It's like, now what you know, and it's like, well, like, let's start a record label. You know, we've been throwing shows we've been.
00:18:00
You know, promoting these artists in this like local and regional set.
00:18:04
Is really shifting their perception of what homegrown art is in an area like this changing people's perceptions? You know, like putting music up front instead of in the background, putting it on in such like a small room that you can't deny, you know, like this thing in front of you. And when you see that.
00:18:24
It's like, you know, this weird feedback loop of excitement, because the crowd feeds the music and like the musicians, and then the musicians play better and like they get the crowd more excited. And it's like stuff that was so natural for me that, you know, that just people weren't experiencing here.
00:18:43
So we were able to do that and it's like, well, let's take this party as far as it can go. So I started Rush Day's records and.
00:18:55
Have been just kind of chugging along, putting out records, you know, just figuring it out one step at a time. And that's kind of where we are, right?
00:19:04
Now let me tell our our listeners. When I met Omar, the record, the, the studio was actually.
00:19:11
Really, upstairs in the back of a building that really the upstairs hadn't been used for much in quite a while. The bottom part of it had kind of a coffee shop and Co working space and the owner of the building was trying to foster coworking and all sorts of stuff. So it was sort of a perfect synergy for you.
00:19:29
To kind of get started.
00:19:31
But you were already in talks with the folks who own the legacy arts building and their comic book.
00:19:36
Shop and they had big dreams for for the use of the space and you were already starting to throw shows in the back of their space and now you've got kind of a full time studio in the building. There's a comic book shop up front. There's a little bar.
00:19:53
There's a a nice little area for a show a a nice stage in the back. There's a park along the side of the building and it's it's kind of like right in the heart of downtown Lima. So and and you throw a street party that that encompasses all of this stuff.
00:20:09
So real amazing synergy I I want to know like what what has been the feedback from the civic leaders and the community as to everything that you're doing, cause you're a linchpin of all of this creative entrepreneurship?
00:20:26
Yeah, man, no, we're, I mean, we're lucky to have the partners that we do that kind of, you know, believe in the in the same kind of crazy stuff that you know that we really believe in and.
00:20:40
You know, again, it's about changing perception in a town like this. So you know, there are people that like, listen kind of suspiciously, you know, and they're just kind of, you know, head tilted kind of thing like, you know, like, I don't know exactly if I understand, but like and then there are people that are like hell. Yes, like.
00:20:59
Know exactly where we're coming from. And you know that's really.
00:21:05
The support that's LED us to continue has been more from like the public than like the civic leaders that are there.
00:21:12
You know like.
00:21:15
There are some, like I said, there are some people that get it and then there are some that I feel that.
00:21:19
Are just kind of bidding their time until you know what I.
00:21:22
Mean upholding some status quo.
00:21:25
Until they're out, you know? And like, you know, our hope is that whoever comes in next, you know, is willing to pay attention. Who?
00:21:32
Going to, you know, hang with some ideas that they wouldn't necessarily like, you know, think of themselves or think as being like, you know, something worth trying out. But for us, it's like I said, it's the partners that we have, it's, you know, we've got great partners.
00:21:52
Uh, you know or Lionel? Memorial Civic Center here in town.
00:21:58
That saw it.
00:21:59
Early on and was like, what can we do to help? And as you know, that's like.
00:22:04
Gold to somebody.
00:22:05
That's like feeling like they're like.
00:22:07
Treading water or like you know what I mean, like fighting this uphill battle. Same thing with art space Lima and Greater Council. Our Council, the arts greater.
00:22:18
I'm a our partners here at Legacy Arts the same way. Like you mentioned, the fact that the studio was in this abandoned office space, right and is above this coffee shop.
00:22:31
And I don't even think that they knew exactly what we were doing up there.
00:22:35
Like, you know, like.
00:22:36
There's probably like a few months until.
00:22:39
Like I was like hey.
00:22:39
Do you want to come check?
00:22:40
Out the space and they're like ohh like this.
00:22:43
Is what's going on up.
00:22:44
Here so that.
00:22:46
Trust, you know, from from business owners here in this town.
00:22:51
That has extra space that aren't doing stuff.
00:22:54
With it, that's the type of thing that, like, we're trying to cultivate with, you know, legacy arts and legacy arts building and this collective of like minded people, you know, being able to pull their resources and their love for art and music and cool things to happen, you know, like.
00:23:15
So I really see this as being, you know, a beacon, some kind of magnet that's, you know, here to drawing people that are just as weird as we.
00:23:24
Are the same stuff, so.
00:23:28
But yeah, Mark and Angie Boker that own this building and they have alter ego comics. They were some of those people early on. It's like, you know you, you know.
00:23:39
What's going on? What are you doing? You know, like what? Like how are you gonna grow this? And there were some of the first people that I could be like. What's a
00:23:47
Business plan and how?
00:23:48
Do you like? How do you do an Excel?
00:23:51
Sheet, you know like.
00:23:53
So they were always very supportive of it. And you know, just kind of everything.
00:24:00
Thing fell into place for us to be able to have this over here and you know, it wouldn't have started without putting together this little like PDF document of what things could look like. You know, like this packet of information that was just growing and growing and showing people. And my wife and I like we love.
00:24:20
Going out of town, seeing places. You know where it was, you know, the similar kind of like teamwork in a culture that we appreciate and being like, why can't we have that in Lima, you know, like.
00:24:34
There's no reason like that. You know, we just can't do it ourselves and find people that want to.
00:24:39
Do it with us so.
00:24:41
We're really lucky for that.
00:24:42
And tell me about your logo, because I I really think it's awesome. It's in the background of your.
00:24:47
Screen there so.
00:24:48
I can kind of see and it looks like Ohio across the top, but when you first described it to me, I was like, oh, that's genius.
00:24:55
So what? What? What prompted that?
00:25:01
This I was.
00:25:04
I was on tour with, hit the lights and we were in the UK and it was after a show and we're hanging out at a pub and I'm chatting with this guy that's like talking about.
00:25:16
You know the reason why some of the best music in the world comes.
00:25:21
Out of England and like the UK, is because it's so damn like Gray and dreary and like industrial.
00:25:29
And like you know.
00:25:31
And he's like, of course, you know, like that's, you know, inspiration and you know, it's like comes from the environment. So Sabbath and Birmingham and like The Smiths from Manchester like, you know nodding him or like whatever.
00:25:43
He's like, you know, mentioning like Liverpool and like The Beatles. And I've got me thinking.
00:25:49
Because that was like.
00:25:51
You know, this realization of like, yeah, it's like true. It's like, you know, your environment really.
00:25:59
Can shape your creativity and I was always like wondering how was it that like.
00:26:05
These people from this area were like had this thing that was just like this charged creativity, you know? And it's like, that's what it is, you know, it's like, you know, we're kind of all looking at.
00:26:19
It in Lima, it doesn't matter like where you are. You could be like the prettiest part of town. And like the refinery is like, you know, this flame, that's kind of like the watchful
00:26:29
Eye of God, you know.
00:26:31
It's not wrong.
00:26:33
Yeah, yeah, like everywhere that you go is just kind of like there, like reminding you. And it's like, yeah, so it's like.
00:26:40
You know, it's like it take, like on shoe gaze, but it's like, you know, we're just gazing at.
00:26:44
All these things rusting around us, but it's.
00:26:47
Like taking responsibility for it. And like you know, really like.
00:26:52
You know, acknowledging the fact that that's that's where this grit comes from and this, this honesty and this genuineness that I feel goes into, you know.
00:27:05
A lot of people's brains and eyes subconsciously, but they're people that know how to take that and and make something beautiful.
00:27:12
Out of it. So.
00:27:14
Well, you you truly are making something beautiful out of it. I I love your studio space. And last time I was there, I heard some great, great stuff. Tell me about some of the artists that you're recording and and some of the projects that you've got.
00:27:28
Coming out.
00:27:29
No, dude, there's not enough time. Yeah, like, like. And it's so it's so exciting too, because it's like, you know.
00:27:36
You know, it's like the the mentality is like I got all.
00:27:39
The friends I.
00:27:40
Need kind of thing with.
00:27:41
Them like I meet people and just like Oh my.
00:27:44
God like maybe if.
00:27:44
I just stop sleeping, you know, like there'll be enough time in the day to, like, hang and get.
00:27:49
The work done.
00:27:52
Yeah. I mean, honestly, so uh, shout out to Kevin Ashba who was hanging out here last time when you drop by, he's got a new single coming out early November called elevated. So you can find that rustgazerecords.com or find with search for Rust gaze records and any social media to find.
00:28:12
The pre save link for that.
00:28:15
Jasmine Gore, who is incredible singer-songwriter who grew up in the area and is living now in New York. But you know, she made it here the other month and we were able.
00:28:27
To like lay down some new stuff. That was that samba track that I showed you.
00:28:32
Like when we were hanging out.
00:28:36
DL Burden Davy is one of the people not from this area. He's a he's an Englishman. You call him the Duke of Sunderland.
00:28:47
But he is down in Dayton and we met through some mutual friends and we were talking. He's like, yeah, like.
00:28:53
I used to tour.
00:28:53
Around I was like, how cool, like, you know anybody, you know? Who? Who did you play with? He's like, oh, this band called.
00:28:59
Leather face. And I was like the leather.
00:29:01
Like I grew, you know, like.
00:29:02
I had that 7 inch and like.
00:29:04
Yada yada and he's like a new friend that like.
00:29:08
You know, we've made in the last few years it feels like somebody that we've known all our lives, you know.
00:29:14
So we put out a full length with him and our really good friend Craig, who played drums on that record.
00:29:23
Who plays in this awesome band from Toledo called ****** Neighbors? Incredible punk band, one of my favorite bands right now.
00:29:31
Logan Ross was like our flagship record and kind of how, you know, a lot of.
00:29:37
This really like formulated was like.
00:29:41
Him being kind of stuck in this like.
00:29:45
Writers block rut and I was like alright dude, we're just going to like, record everything.
00:29:50
That you have.
00:29:51
We're going to put it out and that's going to open up all this mental space for you, for new ideas. You know, like this is, you know, and that was that was the first record that we put out and, you know, recorded in an abandoned office space you.
00:30:04
Know with no ventilation.
00:30:06
You know, plumbing, you know, like.
00:30:11
Yeah. And we're hanging out with, you know, new artists right now, incredible songwriter from this area. His name is McCartney Robinson. And we just had like, first little studio hang where it's like, alright show.
00:30:25
Me. What you got, kid?
00:30:26
And he's like, you know, going through.
00:30:30
1012 songs and you know, like all of them. He's like, yeah, no, I get it. No, that's awesome. That's awesome.
00:30:37
Saving this idea for last that it was just like you know, it's like you're sitting there like you don't want to jump in. Maybe like just too quick. And then it's like this last idea was like, alright, we gotta hang with.
00:30:47
This right now.
00:30:48
And came up with this really cool live demo, just like you know.
00:30:52
In this.
00:30:54
And maybe like an hour and a half hang, you know, like, so those are the types of people that like we, you know, just love hanging out with and, you know.
00:31:04
People, especially like when they come in here and they're just like, oh wow, it's like they're thinking about what this can do kind of for themselves. But the people that like we like, really gravitate to are the ones that see that this is, like, this collaborative ecosystems. Like, what can I do for somebody else? And like, when somebody comes in here with, like, that kind of attitude?
00:31:24
It's like you weren't going anywhere, you know.
00:31:27
What you were saying, right?
00:31:28
Here so.
00:31:30
It's cool to hang with people like that. Caitlin Schmidt is another performer from this area that we've been hanging out in the studio with and like figuring out songs and, you know, working on tunes and stuff.
00:31:43
Together. So it's. Yeah, it's incredible, man. I mean, there are so many talented people here that there's not enough hours in the.
00:31:50
Day to uh, you know?
00:31:53
Uh to do the work, but I feel like that's like when you do show up.
00:32:00
And you've got the time together to do it. It's like.
00:32:04
Getting it done and it's it's very focused thing that's like.
00:32:10
Getting more and more concise and hopefully that just kind of continues.
00:32:13
That way you know.
00:32:15
Love to just be able to figure out that efficiency thing and you know, but when you were kind of doing everything here in house, it's like you know, I have to really remind myself to be patient sometimes. So it's all good problems to have.
00:32:32
So, well, you know, I I love how you.
00:32:34
Describe recording sessions as a hang.
00:32:36
With the artist and I, I get that vibe. When I'm in that room and being somewhat of a a fan of gear and studio equipment, I I.
00:32:45
Love the quality of preamps? The quality of mics that you have and I like the sound of the room and I also like that it's so comfortable that it's it. You as a producer give the artist the feeling that they are just there for a hang. They're not. It's not like there's this red light that pops on them that like you're now on the clock.
00:33:05
And start recording, yeah.
00:33:08
Yeah. On the flip side of.
00:33:09
That though you were mentioning the efficiency and and I'm wondering how rust gaze is evolving to to meet the needs both of your community, but also yourself. I mean, I think one of the hardest things for people in the music.
00:33:23
Business it's a very difficult business to be in because.
00:33:26
You either are.
00:33:28
Selling yourself on the stage or you're selling coffee, you're selling beer. You're selling tickets, right? Or you're selling studio time.
00:33:36
But how do you how do you transition to? This is my full time gig and I have to balance the needs of like.
00:33:44
My artistic spirit that I I want to do this project, but I know this person doesn't have a whole lot of money or the people that you know you you may not be as jazzed about what they're producing, but they walked in with cash.
00:33:56
You're you're. Yeah. Gotta pay the bills. So how do you as a producer and as a business owner?
00:34:03
Manage that.
00:34:05
I am the worst person to talk to about this because.
00:34:10
You probably asked.
00:34:11
My wife about this too, because she's like.
00:34:13
When are you gonna take some of those?
00:34:14
Cash paying gigs, you know.
00:34:19
No, it's that that balance is a very.
00:34:26
It's a tricky thing, and it's definitely a very important thing.
00:34:30
It's like whether.
00:34:31
You are in my position or whether you are an artist coming in here to do that thing, going back to what you were saying about the environment, you know, kind of created in here. Thank you for saying that because I've been the.
00:34:46
You know the kid on the other side working with people and you know, I've worked with people whose attitudes are like, it's my way or the highway and, you know, just kind of.
00:34:57
Built the separation between like you and them kind of thing and I've worked with people who are like the exact opposite that.
00:35:04
Kind of come in and become a member of the band or, you know, like, like I said, somebody that like, you feel like you've known all like your life. And to be, you know, to really be able to.
00:35:21
I think express yourself in an honest way, you you kind of have to let your guard down. You know, like you can't be thinking about.
00:35:30
You know, being honest and also like, you know.
00:35:37
I guess like worrying about all these external things at the same time, like while you're you're trying to to put down a performance that's going to get captured, you know, so to make that environment.
00:35:50
For me, you know, I I want to do it first and foremost because I know what it takes and then also too, we're hanging with people that it's easy to have that relationship with. And I think that that's why, you know, I'm selfish in terms of.
00:36:10
You know.
00:36:11
The limited amount of people that I work with, and I'm also kind of stupid for like not taking the cash stuff that like would probably.
00:36:21
Pay and you know so.
00:36:23
In those instances I'm I'm the last person.
00:36:26
To ask about that so.
00:36:30
But you know that's that's why you know.
00:36:33
You you met.
00:36:34
Our our great partner, David Antine, who's the businessman who allows me to be, you know, kind of.
00:36:44
You know, thinking more with the heart than the brain. But you know, he's thinking with the brain sometimes. And it's like, you know, we it's a nice compliment to each other like, you know.
00:36:56
Not it's not even compromise. You know? It's like just it's communication and it's, you know, being able to.
00:37:04
See both sides of this weird coin that.
00:37:07
We're kind of developing so.
00:37:09
You know it's interesting because whenever we meet where I'm kind of wearing my lawyer hat, I I know that your wife is in the room and and Dave was in the room.
00:37:20
And and so.
00:37:21
It's like, OK, I know that there's a team, but it's really great to speak to the heart of that team.
00:37:26
Because I I.
00:37:27
Love your creative spirit and I know that you understand the artist side of it, and I think that's what makes the producer artist relationship really special. I think you're eliciting a good performance because.
00:37:39
You you want the you want that genuineness, you want the the raw and the real.
00:37:44
And I think.
00:37:45
If, if I'm paraphrasing a little bit of what you're saying is allowing the business manager to handle some of the bookings in the in the financial side and allowing your wife a role in strategy and and thinking about it in terms of financials.
00:37:59
Then kind of frees you up to be the artist and producer artist that you that you are, is that, is that a good some red scene?
00:38:07
That is that it it very, very yes. You know like and I think that.
00:38:14
I think that you know that that same kind of worry that we try to lift from like the.
00:38:19
Artists. It's like important.
00:38:21
To do that across the board, you know, like when you are lucky to have a team like that with people that you can trust and realize what people's strengths are and realize you know how to complement each other. So I mean it's the same thing that goes with having you know, managers, booking agents.
00:38:42
Attorneys, you know, like.
00:38:45
You don't. You know, you don't want to be some kind of afterthought or back burner like on anybody's thing you want. You know everybody to be.
00:38:54
Showing up with mutual love and respect, because that's the only way that you're going to inch something that seems like.
00:39:00
Impossible, you know forward so yeah.
00:39:05
I I I'm glad you mentioned that because I I think a lot of people who are checking out this podcast for the first time or checking out the music business mentorship are are really wondering how is it possible to do what we do, how can we transition to a full time.
00:39:20
Making a living from our creativity and it's a real journey and there's no one easy answer. And and the more people that I talk to on this podcast, the more experiences I have as an attorney for artists and musicians, the more I realize there's just not one way and everything is always changing.
00:39:41
So sometimes it feels like you have to be everywhere doing everything all at once. And and I I know the kind of burnout that that.
00:39:50
Can cause so.
00:39:51
Let me ask you, how do you deal with that side of it? How do you deal with self-care and making sure that you can renew your creative spirit and and feel like this impossible task that you get up to do every day? Is is worth doing?
00:40:06
Yeah, no, for sure, man. Like, I mean, it sounds so cheesy, but it's like, you know, if you can take care of yourself and you.
00:40:17
Your thoughts and your emotions and all like the things that kind of can become hurdles when you're taking on something like this. Then it does free up a lot of.
00:40:29
Ram and like a lot of like you.
00:40:31
Know energy to get stuff done. So I mean it's like so important and I wish I would have known this when I was a kid, you know? Like. But I think like.
00:40:38
When you're young, like you're full.
00:40:40
Of like you know the.
00:40:41
**** and the vinegar that.
00:40:43
Will keep you going through like whatever. But I mean, it's like so important to be able to.
00:40:51
Unplug to be able to, you know like.
00:40:54
Eat right. Sleep right. Meditate like you know. Have something outside of.
00:41:04
The thing that you're constantly.
00:41:07
Thinking about that can like take you away from it a little bit.
00:41:11
And you know that's.
00:41:14
That's really what?
00:41:17
You know that along with like you know.
00:41:22
The luck that we have working with the people that we do because like I said again, it's not.
00:41:27
Like I'm clocking in, you know, and like, but you know, you are burning mental energy and you are burning physical energy. So it's like, you know, having to remind myself that sometimes.
00:41:40
When, like the days get long or.
00:41:42
Things are like, you know, you look at the calendar and it's like man.
00:41:45
There's no, you know, there's no day on here that doesn't have.
00:41:48
A dot you.
00:41:49
Know which is.
00:41:50
A blessing sometimes.
00:41:51
You know it's, you know, it's ultimately a blessing.
00:41:55
But no, I think you know just being able to.
00:41:59
To unplug and recharge your batteries is just so important so.
00:42:04
You know, I've I've mentioned this. Yeah.
00:42:06
Eat your vegetables. Eat your vegetables.
00:42:07
Get get some rest. You know, like church on Sundays. Whatever it.
00:42:13
Takes, you know.
00:42:14
Well, I mentioned I mentioned this to you. I think when we last spoke and and I've mentioned it quite a bunch lately, Bob Weir gave an interview a series of interviews in 2020.
00:42:26
Two I think about and it was like to men's health and GQ.
00:42:32
About how he's able to maintain his long term career and it was meditation working out and dedicating himself to a sense of purpose. And I think you've kind of perfectly encapsulated all of that. You've kind of maximized your skills and talents, dedicating yourself to a purpose that's.
00:42:49
Yes, a studio and yes, it's to these artists careers, but it's also to the greater Lima community and to all of you know, bringing a a vibrant downtown.
00:42:59
And and and creating a creative class and creative culture there in, in a city that otherwise would be just staring at the rust, you know, gazing at the rust, so to speak. So I think it's, I think it's amazing. I think what you're.
00:43:13
Doing is like.
00:43:16
Like the Wizards of Old Man, you're you're like the one bringing the magic to the town.
00:43:20
Bringing dude, it's alchemy. It really is, man. It's something out of nothing, you know, and it's like.
00:43:26
Shoot, there's nothing else I'd rather be doing. And it's cool because, you know, get to meet cool people like you. We get to, you know, get together and.
00:43:33
Talk about things that like we love and how to, you know.
00:43:37
Help people do the thing that they love like.
00:43:40
Get out of town, man. Like.
00:43:41
Who won the lottery?
00:43:42
You know like.
00:43:45
Yeah, definitely blessed. Absolutely well. And I, I want to just say one more time how much I love everything that I've heard coming out of your studio. So that's a real testament to having good years, having talent having having.
00:44:01
Gear that you know you know how to use and I I don't want people to think that they have to spend thousands and thousands of dollars to get a really good mic preamp. But you know, I don't think you have anything that you don't need. I think you have what you need. I don't think it it's cluttered or or you know I think you get a really good sound and you get.
00:44:21
You elicit some really good performances, and that's that's a testament to you. How did you develop that skill to use the gear to? I mean, you were a road dog. And how did you transition to be a studio guy?
00:44:35
GarageBand and like you know, getting. Uh.
00:44:40
Getting a Mac early on was like this.
00:44:44
Understanding of, you know, looking at a console and not seeing like a million buttons, but just being like, OK, this is, this is what EQ is. This is what compression is. This is, you know what saturation is and you know to be done and you know this very kind of Fisher price kind of way that garage band is able to offer you.
00:45:05
That's able to do the exact same thing as like Pro Tools or you know what I mean? Like.
00:45:10
Obviously there's.
00:45:12
Different. You know, things like that.
00:45:14
But like on on the technical sense, it was really youtubing stuff. It was, you know.
00:45:22
Getting you know, like tutorial videos and hanging out in the van and figuring out what you know, Ableton is made out of and logic is made out of but on.
00:45:33
The more holistic sense of, you know, songwriting and stuff, it was just really being able to hang out with, you know, some really talented people that were very generous about their information and like their knowledge, you know, and I think the.
00:45:50
You know it's it's weird because it's like this.
00:45:56
Not it's this combination of this technicality, but also.
00:46:01
I mean kind of woo too, you know, like, trying like, you know, how do you have a conversation with somebody you know and.
00:46:12
Allow you know some some honesty to come through, whether it's in like lyric writing or like a performance and stuff. It's like you can't YouTube that I.
00:46:21
Don't think you know like.
00:46:24
So the microphones and like you know, like the mixing stuff, you know?
00:46:28
Like that's all.
00:46:30
That information is out there, but it's also, you know, this place is it's everything from, like the studio to like, you know.
00:46:41
A therapist couch to being like, you know, party room. So you know, it's like kind of like all across the board, but.
00:46:50
Yeah. And, you know, I've just been listening to music since I was a kid. So, you know, I I know what I like and.
00:47:01
I try to get the most.
00:47:07
It would be very easy for me to like take songs that are coming in here and like you know, kind of throw them in the direction that I think that they should go. But like, there's this communication that.
00:47:19
I'd love of, you know, talking to somebody. Well, what the vision is and how you know, how do we reach this target together, you know, so it's like.
00:47:31
You have to have.
00:47:33
Some foundation of the vision where we know that we're going somewhere together and then, you know, if not, then it's like cool. Let's see what happens. Let's take this where it can kind of, you know, like maybe sometimes that doesn't necessarily have to be the case and we'll get there together.
00:47:51
But yeah, it's just it's fun, man. You know, it's cool. Learning a piece of gear and like, you acquire something and all of a sudden, like, everything's, you know, feels like it's better, like, you know, like, so that stuff's fun.
00:48:07
But you know, it's also very addictive.
00:48:09
So you have to be careful.
00:48:11
Yet don't get Gear acquisition syndrome. My God, I had a producer mentor of mine. Tell me it's not how many plugins you have. It's how many completed songs you have letters.
00:48:23
Exactly, dude. Like, you know, I think that that.
00:48:26
When we were talking kind of a little bit about what you're doing with this mentorship program and stuff, it's like.
00:48:33
You know, there's there's the business side of it, but there's also like this this other side too, like of, you know.
00:48:42
How do you become efficient and how do you explain to people too, that you know there's there is this business side, you know, like one of my favorite books. I'm sure that you've.
00:48:53
Hung with that.
00:48:54
Real artist don't starve and like you know, I love the concept of like, really trying to.
00:49:00
Like squash, the notion of like the starving artist, right. And for me, I think I gave myself those excuses before, you know. But it's like, you know.
00:49:10
In terms of like putting in the time and taking your craft seriously and sharpening and honing like your skills, you know and.
00:49:21
There's something within us that, you know, I think that human nature.
00:49:28
It's like, well, I can never be that person. I can never like do that. But I think that if you at least have, like enough belief in yourself to put in the hour of the day, you know, then that will, you know, in the course of a few weeks, you see that you're able to finish those songs. You know, like, you see that you're able to kind of like, have this thing.
00:49:48
So I think what you're doing is great, man. I feel like it's going to help a lot of people and whatever we can do to help, please let us know because you know, I'd love to be part.
00:49:57
Of the the journey, I really appreciate that certainly.
00:50:00
It you know.
00:50:02
I think you hit on a lot of really good things there. Number one, you you said, you know, learning to have a conversation.
00:50:09
And learning, I think learning to have a conversation.
00:50:13
Is a real art form, I think, not thinking of the things that you want to say while they're talking, letting someone speak. You know, I think that makes you a better producer. And the fact that you mentioned that means you're hearing what they're giving you, what they're saying, what they're expressing with their song before you decide. You know, it's like someone.
00:50:33
Who gets a?
00:50:33
A A plate of food from a chef and then immediately put salt on it before they've even tasted it. You know you have this projection of what it is, and if you're doing that then you're not really hearing what it what it is or what it could be. So I think that as a producer, that's an amazing skill. But I also think you touched on something that I just.
00:50:52
Realized as we were talking and that's one of the benefits of this podcast, is being able to talk at length about the process. You know, when you're an artist and and and certainly I've spent a lot of time behind the fret board. I I'm trying to teach myself piano now and I'm I'm exploring different YouTube tutorials and I've got some apps and and.
00:51:12
I'm you know, I've always loved the piano and I love it for theory stuff, but I'm not good enough on the piano to go out and sing and play a show on.
00:51:21
Beats. I can play all night long on guitar, bass, maybe saxophone on a few tunes. I I can play a number of different instruments. But to sit there and, like, get my hands to really learn a piece of music. You know, it's it's hard, especially as an adult to kind of put yourself in that I've got to put the 10,000.
00:51:39
Hours in but I.
00:51:40
Think that the transition.
00:51:42
That's so hard for artists is that you've spent so much time.
00:51:46
Doing something that to by all accounts by other people's metrics is not generating revenue. It's not generating anything. It's generating self improvement, you know, and it's not even like working out where you know you can see the muscle tone it's it's it's building muscles that can't be seen. It's building an expression and a skill set.
00:52:06
That isn't immediately causing gratification or your financial gain. So artists are so used to doing something.
00:52:15
It gives them self improvement.
00:52:19
For no money that then they get into a habit of doing things for no money, and real artists don't starve. That's a great book, a great quote and and ultimately if you understand that what you're doing is, you're perfecting your craft like the craft of songwriting, getting up and working at it every day, not waiting for inspiration.
00:52:39
To strike you, but to work at it, to build so that you can then have something to offer and then creating that exchange between your fan base and your wallet, yeah.
00:52:51
Yeah, you're good.
00:52:53
Yeah, you're giving yourself, but you've gotta create a space for them to your fans to give back to you. To sustain this this thing you know.
00:53:02
Exactly. Exactly. So you know, it's like I talk to people that that have, like, the notion and it's like, OK, if you can, like realize.
00:53:14
That you know you like on whatever like level of talent or skill set or like whatever, you still possess something that, like allows you.
00:53:25
To have like an output of your thoughts, feelings and emotions, and a lot of people don't have that right. Like you see people walking around and they're just like, ohh like it's because like, they don't have this, it's it's a blessing really. Like. So if you can think about it like that, then it's not like, oh, I have to sit down, do this. Like, I get to do this.
00:53:46
And I've got some interest in doing.
00:53:48
This you know.
00:53:49
Right.
00:53:49
And when you put that time in as as an artist, as a songwriter, as like a musician, ultimately like you, just you, you're.
00:54:01
You're figuring what is the most genuine expression of yourself and how do I get better at that? How do I get better at?
00:54:11
Defining my thoughts and my feelings, whether it's through lyrics, melodies, riffs, you know, like pieces, so you know that thing should.
00:54:26
You know, it should feel like playing.
00:54:29
More than it should feel like working, right? But then after like you've let this thing out of you, right? Yeah. Then kind of this responsibility for that kind of takes place where it's like, OK, do I just let this sit on a hard drive? You know, it's like these different levels. The first thing is like getting it off your chest.
00:54:49
Getting it off your back then the second level is figuring out how do I find a a community of people that aren't like you're not looking at them like fans or like walking $20 bills, that's like.
00:55:03
You know, hopefully like minded people that are going to recognize what it is that you're doing and like that first layer of like, you know, getting the thing out to the second layer of finding somebody that can like absorb that thing and then maybe it helps them in a way or you know, even if it's you know, a party jam.
00:55:24
With friends and it's like setting the tone for like, you know, a really nice time. You know, if it's like something like that. Like, if it's helping somebody with a problem, if it's like that kind of thing.
00:55:37
It's like if you can look at it like that, it's not like.
00:55:42
It it, it doesn't feel like slimy to like, sell yourself, you know, like, because you're not. It's like, how do you find like minded people that are gonna understand what it is that you're doing and when you can connect?
00:55:56
With people like that.
00:55:59
That level.
00:56:01
And then it it can. It builds in the most natural way you know, and that's a hard thing to explain to people. It's a hard thing for me to do, too. Like when I'm like, online and, like, thinking about social media and stuff like. But I also see people that are doing it in this very cool, honest way. And I think that, you know, like when.
00:56:23
We're talking about people talking to people that we work with and it's like, you know.
00:56:29
To to be able to build a a base of supporters, you have to engage with them so.
00:56:36
Part of your work is figuring out how do you do that in an honest way that doesn't feel icky.
00:56:43
You know.
00:56:43
Yeah, that aligns with your values.
00:56:46
Yeah, yeah, definitely. And I think that that's, you know, that's just as important as putting in the time.
00:56:53
Whatever your skill is, you know, like whether it's songwriting or guitar playing or, you know, like producing anything.
00:57:00
Like so you know, it's like, I mean, I love Steven Pressfield. I love work of art.
00:57:11
They say that one right, I.
00:57:12
Was heard of war? Yeah, war of.
00:57:14
Art, right? Yeah.
00:57:18
Because there's like that thing that's like, OK, there's time to be like.
00:57:23
Creative and to like, let the Muses visit you and for you to like, do it. And then like there's like, you know, like the editing sense. And there's also like this, this whole other side of like, what are you going to do at that time that you just like?
00:57:37
Had this output and you know we're able to shape it. And now you have, I think for, you know, lack of a better term once it kind of gets to this like package thing. It's kind of a product.
00:57:49
Now right like.
00:57:51
Yeah, but this is birth from you. This is birth. From your thoughts, from your your feelings. And like your emotions.
00:57:58
So it's like you know.
00:58:00
How do you continue to ship?
00:58:02
You know you like.
00:58:03
Yeah, well, you know, there's a couple of.
00:58:05
Different examples from from the sort of the the upper echelon of of music that that I've seen that really kind of inspired me.
00:58:13
And one is.
00:58:14
The story that it's in the history of the Eagles documentary where Glenn Frey is talking about living above Jackson.
00:58:21
Around and I didn't.
00:58:22
Know how to write songs, he says. And then.
00:58:24
I heard every.
00:58:25
Morning at 9:00 AM, Jackson would sit at the piano and I'd hear him bang out the first verse. And every day he would, you know, do that for an hour, and then he'd make some tea, and then he'd go work at the first verse into the second verse, and he'd play it 20 times and maybe make some slight changes. And then he.
00:58:41
Do it again and and and that that sort of grind is something that I think it gets a little lost in in.
00:58:52
In the.
00:58:53
Creative process people don't always think about how hard it is to kind of come up with something that's really amazing, but then there's the other thing. And that that's sort of aiming at your higher purpose. I I watched a documentary that David Letterman went to Ireland to meet with Bono on the Edge and.
00:59:12
They did a.
00:59:13
Little performance and a reimagining of their songs. And it was sort of the start of what became Bono's autobiography. And then he did a solo show at the Beacon Theater. But watching them talk about how did this whole thing come about? And really, they went through a real crisis of faith. They were, they were trying to.
00:59:33
Talk about religion without talking about religion. They were trying to live up to their their ideals in a time of war between Northern Ireland and.
00:59:43
The British and and the.
00:59:45
Just a real time of trouble and they felt like what is their higher purpose? And some people told them to give up music because they thought it was frivolous. They said this rock'n'roll thing is not cool, but then they sort of the way that they characterized it in this David Letterman documentary.
01:00:03
Was that they kind of stumbled upon this this song, the The Bloody Sunday song that really kind.
01:00:11
Took everything they had been doing and coalesced it into kind of a mission. And you can see, I mean, Bono took that and has run with it, probably to the annoyance of some of his bandmates at times. But but it's amazing to see a group of people dedicate themselves to a higher purpose, using their skills and talents to the best of their ability.
01:00:32
And I think.
01:00:33
Regardless of what your taste in music.
01:00:37
You can I I've had had friends over the years who don't really like the edges guitar playing or they don't really like Bono for his political things or whatever criticisms you might throw at a a particular band, or you 2IN general. It's undeniable that they've reached the pinnacle of the business. They're still doing it.
01:00:57
After a very long period of time, they've been very successful at it, so they are a model of success. They are a model of using what they've got to change the world. And I I mean I think.
01:01:09
That's back to the wizardry thing. I think all of us, as as artists are, have a responsibility. I I think that the wizard brought the magic to the town, but it also was kind of the medicine man, the healer, the, you know, I think we bring a little bit of.
01:01:24
Something special to the?
01:01:25
World and and.
01:01:26
You, as you said, it's your responsibility then to figure out what you do with it after that.
01:01:32
And I I admire those folks who can bring it together and then put it out there for for a positive benefit, for not just themselves, but for the world.
01:01:42
Yeah, man. And I think I mean it. There's a huge pressure. Like when you think about it's like you see, you know, throughout the course of history, obviously it's like there's always like troubles and problems and stuff, but it's like, you know, we're living through ours and you see that and it's like, well, what the hell?
01:02:00
Can I do you know?
01:02:02
Like I just.
01:02:03
And and for me it was like, well, what can I do like and it's not.
01:02:09
Anywhere else, it's like who? You know, what can I help with around me right now? And who can I help around me right now? And I think that when you can do that, it takes that pressure off that world thing and and you 2's case, right it was.
01:02:22
Like their snapshot of what was happening in their world at that time, and to be able to grow from something like that.
01:02:30
Too Bono being, you know, like this. Like world traveling like, you know, more than just, like philanthropist. You know what I mean? Like, just, you know, drawing attention to issues and like.
01:02:43
You know, advocating for causes and stuff like that. It like starts with just looking around you. Right? Like that's that's the first.
01:02:49
Step you know.
01:02:51
Yeah, to to hopefully growing to a place, but it's like, you know, if if that intention is there and and you're able to affect the people in your vicinity in a.
01:03:03
Positive way, you know like that doesn't that doesn't that feeling can't get old, you know, like and then hopefully that thing just kind of grows, you know, hopefully that circle grows and, you know, influence of of positive you know change can kind of.
01:03:22
You know, infiltrate different places in different ways.
01:03:26
And you know.
01:03:27
So that's the goal.
01:03:29
Yeah. You know, I think you're a living example of that, man. You know, you're you're really helping your community and you're doing it in a super cool way with the skills and talents you have. And I think it's awesome. So I I applaud you.
01:03:42
What do you what do you?
01:03:43
I applaud you, Sir.
01:03:44
I applaud you.
01:03:47
See yourself doing in the next year or two.
01:03:50
And and what? What's your vision for the next 5 to 10 years? What's?
01:03:54
What's on the horizon?
01:03:57
I mean, you know, like if we can continue doing like what we're doing for as long as possible, like we're going to be psyched, you know, to continue.
01:04:07
Developing, you know, and hanging with the artists that we have been, you know, have been family for years, but also meeting new people.
01:04:17
UM.
01:04:21
One of the things, and we've talked about this, you know, like early on when this thought kind of started formulating of what this could be, it was like, you know.
01:04:33
For to be able to to develop and and kind of get some people out there from this area that then younger people can look at and.
01:04:44
Say ohh this thing that I love isn't impossible because that you know this guy that's in front of me. You know, I was able to do that thing, you know, that has always been the goal. It's like, what can we do that can soak into the soil and continue.
01:05:01
This thing that can can you know, through osmosis almost, you know, like rubbing off like on, you know, inspiration for other people so.
01:05:12
It would be such a cool thing for us and, you know, trying to get it off the ground. But to be able to do like some kind of school of rock performance thing here in town that can draw all these different facets of, you know, entertainment and art kind of together like in a place that can, you know, be a resource for.
01:05:34
Anybody but, like, really kind of, you know, focus in on on, you know, middle school, high school age kids that have this notion.
01:05:44
And and especially with kind of like the diminishing of like arts and stuff and like public schools, it's like, you know, for me, you know, that's one of the reasons why I love going to school and like, when that thing's taken away.
01:05:56
It's like what?
01:05:57
The hell am I?
01:05:57
Doing here, you know, like so to be able.
01:06:02
To provide that.
01:06:02
Thing and hang with local schools and get like.
01:06:05
You know, find the those those people that are interested in that.
01:06:08
Thing and.
01:06:10
Kind of help shape that would be a really cool thing to be doing in 5-10 years for sure, hopefully sooner, hopefully sooner.
01:06:16
I have I applaud that, that.
01:06:18
Yeah. No, that's great, man. That's that's excellent. I I applaud that so much. I, as I might have told you, I I LED a band that was primarily young people for a couple of years.
01:06:31
That I I love that mission. I think that the music business mentorship kind of grew out of that experience and certainly practicing law and seeing what people have done that causes a whole bunch of problems. You know, my goal is to try to teach some folks so that they avoid all those problems and the, the the target audience of this podcast.
01:06:51
And my my courses and and the coaching program is is really the 19 year old.
01:06:56
Me. You know, if I.
01:06:57
Could grab that kid who's just coming out of high school. You know, you've kind of been forced.
01:07:01
To do this thing that your parents said to do for all these years.
01:07:04
And now you're kind.
01:07:05
Of at the cusp of adulthood. What are you going to do with your life? And I didn't want to do anything but play music. Now I I had to take a meandering journey to get where I am here as I think a lot of us do.
01:07:17
But if I could.
01:07:19
Have the the me of now talking to the me of then.
01:07:23
I might have steered him in a little different direction, so I'm I'm hoping to do that for others and and I can see that same spirit in you. And I know you will. I think it's. I think it's really amazing.
01:07:33
I appreciate it.
01:07:33
Let's talk if I can. If I just want to ask because I've I've kind of asked this question of a lot of folks and this will be our our last question, then we'll, we'll wrap it up. But if you.
01:07:42
Had a magic wand and you could solve any problem either in the music business in general or in your particular music business. What what would you do with that, that power?
01:07:53
So and hit the lights we.
01:07:58
We get to experience a lot.
01:08:02
The scene that we were in was the one, you know, the the stuff that we grew up listening to the labels that like we dreamt of being on, like, the the types of bands. There was this, like, very grassroots DIY camaraderie thing where, you know it.
01:08:21
It wasn't about record sales for like a label to keep like a band on a label kind of thing. You know what I mean? Like you didn't have to sell X amount of records. It was more of, you know, just the the love of that act and what they were doing.
01:08:38
I think that.
01:08:42
As the band continued and like we kind of grew from that independent scene and like you see, like the true belly and nature of the beast, you know, and it's like this thing that, you know, like any industry especially like in entertainment, you're really just kind of.
01:09:02
Ringing out the talent until there's nothing else left and then looking for the next person in line that's willing to sacrifice themselves to like these.
01:09:13
You know these gods.
01:09:17
That was something that was really discouraging for sure early on and, you know, to see what that was, it was like, man, that's that's kind of not what we signed up for. You know, it's like.
01:09:35
I think that you know, if I had, like, a magic wand.
01:09:38
It would. It would kind of figure out what what's the, what's the way that you can do something like that sustainably where you aren't really taking advantage of the artist, where the artist can survive, where the artist can, you know, thrive and not have to do things that they don't want to do.
01:10:00
Like and can just live, and you know, I don't know what that is. I know that like as labels started losing money because of, you know, Napster and Limewire and then like, ultimately stream.
01:10:15
Doing a lot of those guys at the tops, paychecks never really diminished, right? It was like, like who? Who can we get rid of here to make sure that my paycheck doesn't change, you know? Then, like, the 360 deals start happening or it's like, what else can we take? You know, like, it just seemed like.
01:10:35
And nobody had the right idea to come in and save this thing. And like, you know, do it like in a way with like integrity.
01:10:42
You know, and it just keeps *********** to now this point where it's like somebody can have millions of streams and you know get checks for seven cents. It's like, wow, it's like you really want these computers to start making this stuff for us.
01:10:57
Or something, you know, like you just like.
01:11:00
Want to figure out what's the easiest way to do it? So I mean the the coolest thing that that can happen is somebody comes up with something. Whatever.
01:11:09
That thing is, but you're the one with.
01:11:11
The with the magic wand.
01:11:13
Scenario so.
01:11:16
So let me ask you, what is what is that? You know, how do you?
01:11:19
How do you?
01:11:21
Well, in many ways.
01:11:22
How you save a burning ship?
01:11:24
You know like.
01:11:25
In many ways, the music business mentorship is here to help guide folks into having a self-sustaining creative career, and I think.
01:11:34
That one of the answers has to be in this day and age is diversification and I think you've got to be able to.
01:11:43
Understand and navigate the world of e-commerce so that you're focused every day on making a sale. As someone who ran a venue for a while and and dealing with business partners who just saw music as sort of a marketing expense, it was like they wanted to cut the cost and yet we were saying no.
01:12:04
We need to have a show on Tuesday night. We need to have a show on Monday night. We need to have shows every night because that's our brand. That's our mission and it's the daily sales. If we can take a daily Tuesday from a, you know, an $800 sale night to a $2500 sale night because we put a band on the stage.
01:12:24
And if the difference between what we.
01:12:25
Made and you know.
01:12:26
What we had to pay the band was.
01:12:28
Not we netted more profit to to bottom line it then it's worth doing and and it's worth doing for a lot of different reasons and it's worth doing because this is a diverse crowd and the Monday night crowd is different than the Tuesday night crowd and it's a community that you're building and and building that community on a daily basis is really what helps sustain.
01:12:50
An individual artist. So you.
01:12:53
You may say, well, I don't really want to do the Tik toks. I really don't want to do as many Instagram.
01:12:58
Grams. But ultimately it's just creating a pathway for that exchange of energy. So if you're if if your thing is to do a particular style of of song and maybe you know you're you, there's only so much you can put out of that kind of content. Well, maybe utilize your TikTok.
01:13:18
Platform to do something in a humorous way or to switch it up so that you're you're using Instagram for more graphic design stuff, but you're staying within.
01:13:30
The the value system and the ecosystem of your brand and your artist brand and also I think thinking about things like a brand or or a message and trying to continually foster that. I think it's easier when you have a purpose like you know the bono.
01:13:49
For example, like if everything that he does is is focused on.
01:13:54
On being a better band and putting out a better song and then using that song to convey a message of peace and hope and love and in.
01:14:02
A better world.
01:14:03
It becomes easier to kind of do the heavy.
01:14:05
Lifting of OK, well, I've got to, I've.
01:14:07
Got to put out another Instagram.
01:14:09
Post today and and I think that.
01:14:12
You know, creating this, this conscious career in a world where, yes, the streaming revenues are drying it up, you've got to shift to.
01:14:22
You've got to shift to another Ave. of making your money, and that is back to fan sales is never going to go away. And yeah, you know, using these platforms, if your whole goal is to just get TikTok famous or to get a million streams on Spotify, you're not aiming at a higher purpose and.
01:14:42
Someone out there listening might say, well, that's easy for you to say. You know, you're not doing it, you're a lawyer, you know? Well, I that's just an example of my own diversification, cause I still play guitar. I still write songs. I still produce tracks. I have songs repped by agencies and I'm still trying to pitch them for ads, TV and film.
01:15:02
I'm now trying to teach other people how to do that. Meanwhile I'm doing it.
01:15:06
Myself. So.
01:15:08
Proofs in the pudding. It's like, yeah, definitely.
01:15:10
I mean, I like I don't.
01:15:13
Pretend that this business is easy. It's not easy if if you want to be in where money, you know, making money is your goal, then go into finance or banking where they have all the money already. If you want to be an artist, where you synthesize the world around you and you convey a message and you maximize your skills and talents.
01:15:31
And the service of your community.
01:15:33
That a community that you created a tribe, that you are the leader of.
01:15:39
You've just got to take on some of these responsibilities. You may not have wanted to or may not even have imagined that you that you did, but no, there's no, there's no substitute for creating that connection one-on-one with with a fan and.
01:15:53
Definitely. And I think that that's the coolest thing about, you know, like the technology that we do have nowadays is the way that you are.
01:16:00
Able to to go out there and find that that community and and build that community and.
01:16:05
Like you know, but I I also miss like the weirdness of, like, the 80s and like the 90s. Like where you didn't know, you know, like what, like?
01:16:22
Like Frank Black, like the singer of the Pixies, was eating for breakfast. You know, you didn't even know what the Pixies looked like, you know, like, unless, like you saw, like, a press photo and some grainy like, you know, like scene or something like that, you know, like.
01:16:38
So like the you know there.
01:16:41
It's it's such like a necessary thing to be able to continue, but like there's some mystery like thing that's like, you know, kind of like unveiled about, you know, like maybe it's too much of that.
01:16:58
Accessibility. You know, like maybe that's like what it?
01:17:02
Well, you know, I think.
01:17:02
Right.
01:17:03
There's something to be said for reserving something for yourself and for your.
01:17:07
Family, I mean.
01:17:08
I think ultimately we all understand and as future generations will understand that the that the social media world is just a carefully curated vision of yourself that you're projecting to the world.
01:17:22
It's not necessarily who you really are and getting trapped in thinking that's who you really are can lead to overinflated egos and some problems if you take it the wrong way, you know.
01:17:34
That's and I mean, that's gonna be such a great.
01:17:39
Like packet of advice to to include and stuff that that you're doing and it's like constant reminders of that thing so that people don't get swept up into this synthesized version of themselves. And then, you know, like.
01:17:52
Lose touch with the reality and like you know.
01:17:56
But also have the confidence to get out there and put themselves out there in a way.
01:18:00
But like, isn't icky and feels like he could be very, like, honest and and genuine. So yeah, rope. It's a tightrope block for sure, like.
01:18:07
It really is, but it's it's there's there's a double edged sword to sort of everything that we're talking about here with the whole social media world and the and the, the place that we are, there's.
01:18:20
There's a New York Times article that just came out. It was an editorial piece where.
01:18:25
The writer was saying that there's been the lowest number of albums and new new movies, and and a lot of movies that we see now are rehashes of older ideas. Even this brilliant Barbie movie is really taking a concept that's that's much older and repackaging it for a new generation. But I think that.
01:18:45
That there is.
01:18:46
A lot of creativity going on in the social media world and I think that it it it sort of hasn't been codified by some of the people who.
01:18:56
You know, look at in the numbers of albums released, I think that all the daily creativity and the micro creativity that goes into creating and curating your own.
01:19:05
Profile is is is an opportunity I think like yes, streaming numbers have gone down, but it's also an opportunity to discover stuff because you know, in days gone by in the 80s you you would only see an album on the shelf.
01:19:20
For a limited amount of time, unless it was selling, you know, then it would just go out and you wouldn't be able to find that anywhere. So now you.
01:19:27
Can kind of find.
01:19:27
The the body of world's knowledge and the world's music at your fingertips on your phone, which is a tremendous opportunity for growth and culture and all that. But it does take a certain sort of sophistication to kind of say.
01:19:42
All right, I'm not the person that I'm putting myself out there.
01:19:44
The on but but but a certain amount of that is authentic and that and the authenticity does engage with fans. And there's a balance between authenticity and familiarity. Breeds contempt like you don't wanna see what my hair looks like in the morning. My wife tells me I have 3 looks.
01:20:01
I've got.
01:20:01
The the look right out of the shower.
01:20:04
There's the look when.
01:20:05
I wake up the look out of the shower and then the look.
01:20:06
After my hair kind of has softened for a while for.
01:20:09
The day.
01:20:09
You know it's.
01:20:10
Yeah, but the look that I that I spent 8 hours every night curating with my hair.
01:20:15
That's probably not on social media, very.
01:20:20
Often you know what I.
01:20:21
Mean I spent.
01:20:22
A lot of time working on that hairstyle.
01:20:25
Just for one an audience of.
01:20:26
One my my wife.
01:20:28
Feel and.
01:20:29
Feel like you're coming up with some really engaging content though. If you showed the different stage.
01:20:35
I might I.
01:20:35
Might have to. I might have to.
01:20:38
But you know, as as I as I think about this, there's a a a band that I'm gonna have on the podcast called the crutches. And they're from Chagrin Falls. OH.
01:20:48
They they at least.
01:20:48
OK.
01:20:50
Claim to be.
01:20:51
Because they're all animated their entire persona.
01:20:55
Is I love it, man. That's insane. That's absolutely. That's so cool. Like so.
01:20:56
Anime, yeah.
01:21:00
So it's like it's taking a real band and then putting projecting their vision of and and they they're they're. They're all cartoon characters.
01:21:10
Student like.
01:21:11
And I want to meet the person who who's who's birthing this idea because you know, I mean, like, that stuff's exciting, you know, like.
01:21:19
I was having a conversation with Dave yesterday. We were.
01:21:24
Watching some stuff on YouTube and you know, some something this like concert film made by this artist whose name is Dijon.
01:21:35
25 minute Long Lake live concert thing took the concept of like a live concert footage thing and just completely flipped it on its head and it's like this way that we were just like floored by.
01:21:49
And you know.
01:21:53
I was like thinking because of, you know, being on the inside of of making something like this. What the dynamic is with like the idea.
01:22:04
The person that has to go to somebody else to tell them how this crazy idea, it's like, I don't know if this is going to work and that person being like F it let's do it anyway, let's see what happens, you know and like man like, that's the kind.
01:22:18
That's the kind of stuff that, like, just, you know, gets me going when somebody's like, I got this crazy idea. Like, let's do it. Like, you don't even know what the.
01:22:25
Idea is like I.
01:22:26
Don't care. Let's just do it.
01:22:27
You know, like that kind of concept, the stuff that I love. So like, I genuinely love hearing some some crazy cool.
01:22:36
Ideas. Was that like and I wanted to know that person. I want to know what makes them tick. I want to make. I want to know what gives them the gall to think that they can do.
01:22:47
Just through that, that inspires me to like, you know, really follow those crazy ideas when I have them. So I I love that.
01:22:55
Well, yeah, I will. The crutches dot the dot crutches dot official on Instagram is hailing from Chagrin Falls. OH, the band consists of.
01:22:55
Please send me that stuff.
01:23:07
Rigby, Stone, Elliot, Rooster, Arthur, Duke, Oswald, Cannon, Doc, and they are an animated band.
01:23:13
And they.
01:23:14
Wait, did is Doc just like single name? Just.
01:23:17
Doc, like every like.
01:23:19
Is that one person like OK?
01:23:20
There's three people, and Duke Oswald Cannon is Doc DFC.
01:23:23
OK. OK. OK, OK. OK. OK. I thought like everybody had, like, you know, first and last names. And then just Doc, is the drummers.
01:23:34
But shared.
01:23:34
It's Rigby. Rooster and Doc are the folks in the band. It's it's a it's a great concept. It really is. I I've heard some of their music. It seems pretty cool, but we're not here necessarily to talk about them. We're here to talk about you and your stuff. What is the next thing? Tell me when the next.
01:23:54
Block party is in the next event at the Legacy Arts Center and how often do you do them? And let's put on a plug for coming out.
01:24:02
That's for sure.
01:24:03
So, so legacy arts, we we throw this party every year on Main Street in Lima, OH USA.
01:24:14
We just celebrated our 4th 1 Great Acts, great attendance. You know, it's like one of those things where.
01:24:21
It's like.
01:24:22
You know you.
01:24:25
You put in the work you do the thing and like.
01:24:29
It's through just the.
01:24:33
The continued occurrence of that the people start trusting it, you know, like it's like, OK like, you know, we see your name now. OK, like we know that this is something worth coming out to.
01:24:46
And it's really just about putting on the type of party that we would want to go to, you know, kind of selfishly, like we're using these resources to book bands that we love to curate artists that we love, you know, to like, you know, even with like, food and and drink and, you know, other programming that kind of goes on. It's just like this is.
01:25:08
The type of thing that we want.
01:25:11
To experience. So let's do that and let's let's find the same people that are into the same stuff. And it's been really cool to be able to continue that so next year, next September, look out for the legacy Art St. party. Is that going to be 20?
01:25:26
24 yeah.
01:25:27
2024 next year, so yeah.
01:25:31
So in terms of the venue here, the bar purple fee.
01:25:37
Is actually going to be moving into the back, so once that happens and that gets settled, then we're going to figure out what the events are going to be going on back there. But in terms of looking out for releases from Rust Gaze, Kevin Ash has got elevated single coming out.
01:25:56
Leave November 3rd.
01:25:58
Two singles coming out on deck from Jasmine Gore, DL Burden. We are going to have at least an EP coming out, let's say by spring time next year and then all the fun people that we're meeting along the way that are coming out of the woodwork so.
01:26:17
So definitely check us out and follow these artists. You are not going to be upset.
01:26:25
That you did.
01:26:27
And yeah, come hang out in Lima if you know, look us up. Legacy Arts Building, 230 N Main St. probably here. Ask for Omar. I'm in my dusty little corner of the universe and.
01:26:41
Come hang out.
01:26:42
That's amazing, man. It really is. You've got a really great thing going on, Omar. I love it. I I I particularly love all the music you just mentioned. And I really do enjoy, whether it be an indoor hanging at the in the space, in the back of the building there or the the street party, which I have yet to make it to. But I want to.
01:27:02
I'm planning to put that on my calendar, so that's that's something for September of next year. But I really my hats off to you man. It's really cool, really great stuff.
01:27:12
And thanks very much for being on the music Business Ventures podcast.
01:27:16
Anytime, man. Thank you, John. Seriously. Like this is, you know, anytime that we just have a chance to to chat it up and and and catch up is is really special. But the fact that you know hopefully you know there's been some little nugget of truth or something in here that somebody picks up on that you know.
01:27:36
Allows them to continue doing what it is that they're doing and allows them to, yeah, and grow and.
01:27:45
To be a part of, that's really cool. So honestly, whatever we can.
01:27:48
Do please let us know of course course, Brother.
01:27:49
Thanks man. I appreciate it.

The Studio Hang: A Conversation with Omar Zehery of Rustgaze Records

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