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EP 3 Audio.mp3
Transcript
Well, alright, ladies and gentlemen, we're back. It's another episode of the music business. Mentorship. I'm your host, John Shiell. And today we've got my very good friend Chris Watt on the program. Chris is a professor at Xavier University. He teaches at the Music Resource Center and winner of the 2020 since the winter film. Festival for the soundtrack to a movie that he put together. He's an analog sin. Performer Twitch streamer live production beat making hip hop instructor. Man, the list goes on and on. What do you not do Chris Watt?
Take no for an.
Answer ohh, there you go. Perfect perfect. I should also mention's father of three, husband of one and just an all around good guy, fun fun guy to know and knows a ton about gear and we were talking before the show about all the things that he's done to develop the the workstations and the work. Area that he's in now and for those of you watching, you can. See, he's got quite a few modular analog synths behind him. So tell me. Mr. Watt, as you go by, lovely shirt, by the way, how did you get into music production? Like, what brought you to the world of music?
Thank you.
Stevie Wonder. Master blaster.
Ohh, perfect. Amazing.
Yeah, I I tell the story from time to time. The record actually changed the trajectory of my childhood.
Wow, that that's intense. Yeah, I I can vibe with that because I love Stevie Wonder so much so. How how did? That was that. Did that like the spark where? You were like, I got to. I got to go play music. I got to play keyboards. I. Got to do something.
Yeah. Yeah, it was like. Whatever I was going through, whatever I was thinking at that point in time when I heard that record. Long story short, my uncle, one of my dad's brothers, had basically a record shop in his house and I would ask him to play records from time to time and he would hand me records first before he let me dig. In on my own. So that was one of the records he handed me. And when I heard it. Like halfway through the song I was like. The way I feel right now, I. Want to make other people? Feel like that by making music. And I was like. My mind was made-up at that point like. That's the best way I can explain. It is like my mind was made-up and I didn't know how I was going to get there, but something about that piano, the reggae slash tone slash, whatever those frequencies were because I'm big in the frequencies in that key. In particular, just touched me in a way that I'm like I want to do that.
Wow, that is. That's awesome. That's inspiring. So from that point on, would you say you were a musician first and then you developed into being a producer or you just said it's all the same thing. Let's go. I want to. I want to do this, whatever it is, whatever it is I'm doing.
Musician first. Because that was a long time ago and we did this. This is predating dolls. This is predating, you know, Pro Tools or any of the things that we've been using for years. There was tape then. So the easiest bar for entry being, you know, we didn't have the money to buy any of that stuff, was getting my hands on the keyboard. The piano and pianos were the way to go. So I would go to the library that had a piano in it my. My parents house had a piano in the one like living room that nobody could go in, so I would watch it. Look at it all. The time I'm like. Oh, can I go? Can I go? You know, with the plastic on the couch and everything, right. Is staying in there, and that's all I wanted to do is learn that.
That's to me.
That's exactly where the piano was in my house. It.
The same event.
Was in the.
Room where nobody was allowed to go except on special occasions.
Yeah, right. Like when you wanted to show it off and and nobody played it. Like, if nobody's playing it, why can't we go to, you know, it's that type of thing.
That's exactly what the way it was for me. What? And and I'll. Just share this because we're we're very much on the same page. So I I grew up, I was basically in a situation where I had a school that offered a Suzuki violin program very early on. I mean, very early on they were doing recorders and and and. Wind instruments in in kindergarten, but then they said, listen, we've got this. This Suzuki violin thing if you want to do it, my parents said hey, that's cool. Until you know me and my sister got home and we're screeching this violin. You. Know all day. Long but for.
Right.
Something had me hooked real, real early and then switch schools and I'll never forget it. My older sister's friend was walking up the hallway. Towards the end of school and I was going down the stairs and and I'm thinking we're all supposed to be leaving. Why is she? Going up there and she. Had this big black case and she opened it up for me and it was a it was a saxophone. It was a tenor saxophone, and it was just the most beautiful thing I had ever seen. I just. Could not get over it and I can still feel it when I think about that moment. And so from that moment on, I kept telling my parents, like, there's this thing. It's called a saxophone, and it is just the most amazing thing I've ever seen. And we got to do that. So I started playing saxophone in the 4th grade and. I mean, lots of things happened. Somebody told me that I wasn't actually in the band as a horn player. I was just a backup musician. So then I went and got a guitar because I needed to be in the band.
Right.
So yeah, it's it's been a long road, but. I'm with you. Like. I started off with the there was the piano in the other room and you really. You were just not really allowed to go in that room. But we always wanted to. And so when I'd get in there, I'd be able to make all kinds of, you know, fun things happen and then eventually get yelled at for making too much. Noise and you know, I have to go off and do something else.
For your young listeners, I don't know if this happens anymore, but you know sound like the old man. Back in my day.
Yeah, feel that.
The piano came with the house cause nobody could get it out of the house. So a lot of us in during that generation and sixty 70s, probably the 50s as well coming up. If you got into a new house, some of those houses came with pianos because they never moved them out, which is how we got grandfathered to have a piano. It wasn't like, you know, we had the funds to go buy a new. Concert grand, right? It's like it just. And it was a gift that came along with that. So like you is it's one of these things that it was this magical Unicorn that you had to ride. You know that something your brain clicked and like? I like that.
So you're also a live performer. When did live performance get into your world? I mean, was it school or was it friends or?
Our school shows I had a friend who I was making music for at the time she was singing and I was playing like the background, you know, playing the we were doing like acoustic things, right? Didn't know any better. We were just rehearsing together. She would catch me playing something that she knew. Too. So we started doing talent shows together. And we did a few of them for like recreational centers and whatnot. And I got my first standing ovation in elementary school somewhere. And I was like, oh, this is the bug right here. This is, you know, to have a A. A gymnasium full of your peers and friends that didn't know you did this thing and you did it and there. You know, you turned into a celebrity after that, and that's where that part started.
That's a myth.
And then shortly after, shortly after that. My as I. Grew up the the. Here's the flip side of the coin is I started becoming more of an introvert because I was honing my craft and I knew I needed to. You know, believe myself with other distractions while I was honing my craft and it stuck around, but the performance aspect I'm going introvert until I want to get on stage and then it's like. The the Bruce Banner Hulk.
Type of thing.
Doctor Jekyll and Mr. Hyde and then when? The show is over. I clicked back OK what could I have done better? You know, I go into what does the next? Show look like. Fast forward from there it was, you know, show after show after show got bigger, started doing radio. This is early. This is Internet cafes. Before Internet was in anybody's home at this point and you would go to Internet cafes to to get dial up AOL, right. Like, yeah. I'm still hearing the fax machine noises and whatnot. Well, a friend of mine. His dad opened a little studio in the back of the Internet cafe that they owned, and he started a Internet radio station. And started letting us go in there Thursday, Friday nights after. School and do these little. Beach shows and we would freestyle. Then just hang out. And that's when I got my first. Taste of like the Casio SK1 and there was a MPC 60 and then there was a TR 707 and a 909 and his dad was the gear head like you know early then so. Bude Place was the place to go on Thursday and Friday night, and that's how that started before high school.
That is, that's amazing. I love that you were introduced to that particular gear. My Rd. kind of went where? A buddy of mine's dad had the Olympic white Fender Stratocaster. It was kind of like that moment in Wayne's World where, you know, the music plays and you're like, oh, it's this dream, you know. And and for me then it was. Jimi Hendrix and Stevie Ray, Vaughn and all these Blues guys. But you went into. The MPC and the SK1 and the and and beat making probably evolved at some point in your world right from that early phase, right and and so? How did that? Develop into a career with everything you do now.
I didn't expect it to. It was. It was never my intention to make it a full long career. To be honest, I wanted to do it and I knew I wanted to do it when I wasn't. Making money because at the time, you know. Born and raised in Chicago on the West side, it was not something that you saw as a career and my mom would never see music as a career. She's like, that's an outlet. For you and take that outlet, she was supportive in a way that she just. Stayed out the. Way, not necessarily buying me anything, not necessarily taking me anywhere or introducing me to anything, but she was just like, if you want to do that, you got you go do that. That's something that, you know, you really get into. That's where that development came from. Of my own curiosity, I had gas from a you. Know a youngster? So to speak in due to I think a lack of access and curiosity, I would spend a lot of time at the libraries looking for manuals for gear that was out then, so if I. Ever got my hands on the mat on the gear I would be prepared for it before. Which was the I guess, the old soul. Type of thing for a kid to want. To do. Yeah. And they were scarce and I knew I was lucky. To have a. Friend who had a dad who was into that, they were successful business people and he was into it. So by proxy he was like three or four of us. They got to hang out and and learn that type of stuff early and somebody fostered it. For us to be able to do and I. Didn't take it as that so Fast forward as I got a little bit older I was in, I was working machining and manufacturing. I did security before for Marshall Fields, Carson Pirie Scott, if you remember that Woolworth and whatnot. Back in the day.
Oh yeah.
And as I was always doing music, even though I had a job, then I got into healthcare after getting laid off from manufacturing so long, I did work for Honda and Ford for a number of years, and the last time I got laid. Off I got a severance package and I'm like, I'm going to buy my first keyboard and I'm getting my own thing and at the time I was bouncing around to different studios. I turned into a session musician almost. Not a, not the traditional session musician, right? I was the guy that knew 7th chords. I was the guy that knew a few different things and I can play stuff by ear if they hummed it out or if I heard something else. So I developed that. And I was working in different studios doing a A for higher type of situation. It's like I give me 25 bucks. Yeah, I play some keys on this and hey, so I became that guy in in different situations and scenarios and I kind of got tired of doing that when I wasn't allowed in the studio to work on my own thing and or I couldn't do it. For free. So they were charging me regular price. And as I was building my own catalog of music and I said I want to, you know, get that on my own and. Around that time, a lot happened with my family here and there and I ended up in Cincinnati. Well, literally this is. Factual story the day I moved to Cincinnati, it was October. Of 98 I want to say. 989798 somewhere around there. Regardless, three days before I moved. Here at Guitar Center in Forest. Fair Mall had opened up. And they were hiring people. And I met the crew there. Like I'm just just landed here. We went to go get something to eat. Uh, let's go to the mall. Let's see what the mall is like and shout out. Thomas Graves, still a friend of mine. Of mine to this day. Met him there. We were just jamming. You know and. Got to talk and he said, you know, what are you doing here? Like, I just got here. Like I'm. From Chicago like. I literally just got here. I got something to eat and I. Came to Guitar Center I.
Said you need.
A job and I said yeah, I.
Need a job?
And you know, a couple of hours later, I was hired that guitar. And there is a warehouse person. They didn't need any more salespeople, but they needed people in the warehouse and I was like, yeah, that would. So it, you know, I started building relationships with manufacturers and reps and going to gear trainings and whatnot, along with the sales guys. So that fostered me to be able to build my own studio. And that's where it started. J X305 Tascam tape recorders, DDR202SP2O2 and these you know little groove box things that I had in my room before I moved out my moms house. Like got rid of the dresser and got a desk and lived out of some totes and whatnot, but I had my little home situation that I I built overtime and that's where it. I think that's. Where the the seeds started to grow actually into something I was like I. Can do this. Like now I have this I can do. The other stuff. And that's where. That blossomed from afterwards.
I love that I there's so many echoes of my own life, that kind of mirror that, you know, we're we're probably of a similar generation where we started off recording with the, with the four track cassettes and and then moved into, you know, grew up into the into the DAW. World, but for me it was live instruments. Because you know, my friend's parents had him, and. And then of course all. The stars of the. The 80s, nineties. I mean hair, hair bands were big, you know, guns and roses. I remember hearing sweet child of mine for the very first time on 97X in on a radio that you could only get 97X in my sister's room. So I had. To go in there and I heard this guitar sound coming out and I was like, what is that? I gotta. I gotta hear that. And so I would go in in her room and try and wait by the radio and hear the. Hear the song. And of course, there was poison and the and and and my parents didn't have cable, so I. Didn't have MTV the same way everybody else did, but I would go over to friends houses and we would watch, you know Michael Jackson and and then all the various videos that were coming out. So it was always like the instruments. But then I remember getting like a Guitar Center or musicians friend or. Some kind of catalog? And and I just became kind of obsessed with signing up for all the catalogs because they would mail them all to you. So I would get these catalogs like you would go to the library. I would sit there and read through all the catalogs to figure out what gear was happening, what gear, you know, was going out of out of style. And of course, things just changed so quickly and technology. Just moved so. Fast that at a certain point it you know, once it was online, thankfully we wasted a lot less paper, but man, I was right there with you like trying to figure everything out and try and put it together. And and I remember going to a producer and being told, you know, how much it would cost me to produce an album in his. Place or you know, and I thought to myself, well, if I spent that amount of money on the gear myself, what could I do in my own house and that kind of led me to my first LLC and and writing a business plan and and even my first time pitching music for ADS, TV and film. Which I know you've gotten into the sync world as well, but you know it it's been a long road and kind of bounced here and there, but it was never, never like, ohh, you can be a professional musician or you can be, you know, even even the idea of going to law school to represent musicians came later. I didn't go to law school. Till I was 30, so. I think the meandering path sometimes is a good one, and I mean, look at where you are now. You teach at. The Music Resource Center you're teaching at Xavier University, you're winning awards and you're writing music for ads, TV and film. And you mentioned doing that with the horror and and some of the drama stuff before we got on air. Tell me about how you. How you developed into, you know, writing music for for others and and being a producer in the commercial sense where you're producing tracks to sync?
I was one of those people saying meandering path right as bouncing around traveling different Midwest venues and and whatnot performing. And I got wind of sink licensing through a friend. It wasn't till 2016 I was already, you know, streaming on Twitch and whatnot. And it never dawned on me at all, like, through all of this, I never thought about it. And I got wind of it. And somebody got ready to be nominated to be president in 2017, and I said. If this person becomes president, they're going to take away all the grant money and all the Pell grants and all this other stuff for school. So if this. Happens. I'm gonna go back to school to get my music degree. By this time, I had several licenses and different things in healthcare and I was doing that full time. I've been in healthcare for a very long time. Like I can write my tick. But I I knew that if I went back to school and I was. Gonna pay student loans it. Was going to be for something I wanted to do with my life period, and I figured let me get my music production degree and shout out Full Sail University took me into 2017. Graduated top of my class, valedictorian, and one of the oldest ones. I was 40 years old when I went. I was 42 when I graduated. And same as you. I didn't go back till way later to you. Know figure the rest of these things. Out and then they've really helped me.
That shout out to non traditional path. Non traditional students, that's.
Yeah, shout out to the creatives, figure the business out if you have the creative part. The creative part will work itself out. That's the part of who you are. The business aspect is where you're able to, you know, I just want to pay my bills. I don't need to be famous. I just want my kids to live good and take a couple of vacations a year and whatnot.
That's awesome.
And that was the goal. And I had got the full sail smashed through a lot of the programs. And I I really got into some of the instructors there that were already In Sync that were doing this full time for like the NFL, MLB, MLS and so forth. And I was like, wow, I want to do that. That's that was my my next evolution being an introvert when they said you. Know you can do this from home you. Don't have to go anywhere and I was like, oh, I get to stay home. My wife and kids. And, you know, I retire from traveling around doing the music thing. When I met my wife and I knew that I wanted to settle down and that wasn't going to be a part of it I wanted. You know them to be the center of my universe, along with music in parallel. Like they're still #1. There's no picking between the two. Of them for me. Got there. Started networking with professors and other students and learning the business and ends and outs of it. It was a good two year struggle of not getting anything but still working. Building the catalog and learning the lingo and learning how things go. People need to understand that sync music is very different from traditional. Popular music, charting, music and format and style and context. And so forth. And when I started learning all of that stuff, it was it opened up a whole another Ave. of music for me and you didn't have. To be in a. Box because I loved all these different things. I'm a huge Jimi Hendrix fan. I'm a huge earth, wind and fire fan. I'm a huge. We already said Stevie Wonder we we can run down the list like the usual. I call the usual. Aspects like The Beatles like Pink Floyd, like Deep Purple is my ultimate. Band. If I could go back in time to see them live, I would love to go see deep purple because that was one of the first bands that I learned about that actually had keyboardists that showed out in rock. And there was the organs and sense and different things that they were using. And then Parliament Funkadelic, Bootsy Collins. Right now, funk not fighting everything that they're doing. And that allowed me to get out of this box of just hip hop that allowed me to get out the box of. You know, rap music. I'm a six foot three, 230 LB black dude that plays piano and you like you automatically think hip hop, but I wanted part of that was breaking the stigma and and loving all these different genres of movies and films and TV shows and other stuff and picking those things out. It just became another addiction. Of like I want to figure this out and how to. Do it and. Failing forward got me, you know, pretty far over time it was nothing that was easy was nothing I was overnight, but I plugged away at it every day and. I love it. I don't want to do anything else.
At this.
That's awesome. I I love it too. I want to. I want to say a shout out to Bootsy and and UI his son. Good, good friend of mine, but I I I love the fact that Cincinnati, there's all this like the start of your conversation and and rounding it out with with the Bootsy. Reference it's it's got this Cincinnati vibe. So your, your, your world kind of opened up when you came to Cincinnati with the Guitar Center and then all of this stuff in full sail, bringing it to another level. That's. Speaks to just your perseverance, but also to the fact that being a musician is a state of being. It's not something you. Sort of. Choose. It sometimes chooses you and it's part of who you are. I think it's amazing that your, your family and your music are so central to your world, which leads me to ask my question, which I talk about purpose a lot. But what do you feel like your purpose is both, you know, as a family man and educator and a musician? How do those? Those things align because they seem like you've got it kind of dialed in. What do you feel like your mission is and your purpose and what gets you up every day?
It turned into. Creating more sync composers, right? The the industry has changed so much. Everything is streaming. Everything is released yesterday. You know, what you do is extremely important with the business aspect of it. Learning contracts and different things of how to navigate that and honestly, a handful of us that are doing sync. Even though I'm not getting every placement, it doesn't. I don't worry about getting a replacement. I want the correct ones. I want the ones that fit my. Values and structure and so forth. But we can't keep up. And other creatives. Younger creatives, even, especially the younger creatives, need to know all of the resources and. Tools they have at their fingertips to be able to create the same career that I've created for myself to provide for them and theirs. You don't have to. Bow down, so to speak, to the labels and and push an agenda of this one particular type of music in order to pay your bills and. If you want to go be famous, wonderful. Go be famous and chase that. That's that's awesome. I would never shoot down anybody's dream of doing that. This is just a different path, I think, for more people who are creatives because honestly, a lot of creatives are are. I think it's my personal opinion a lot of creatives are self-conscious to begin with. If you can have, if you can still live your art and have anonymity at the same time, it's the. Marrying of both of those. I think and. And our generations weren't told. We can do this as a career, and I want to tell people you can do this. As a career, you. Just have to know you have to. Reverse engineer and deconstruct how to get where you want to be at and as far as my personal life with my family, I wanted to create things that had generational wealth for my kids. So everything that I do that my name is on their name is on as well. So even when I'm gone, if it's, you know, because musicians make more money. After they're dead. So if somebody picks it up for a Marvel movie, a Disney movie, and it's one of my songs, and they can, you know, pay for whatever they wanted to do from the royalties of that, that's a goal of mine because we don't have, you know, 401K's and and there's no more golden parachutes. So be it's. I think it's unique as a creator that we can create. Our own parachutes. And we can pass that parachute to to generations below us, behind us not below us, but behind us. And that's my that's what gets me up in the morning. Sincerely, the music gets me up in the morning. But knowing that it has a purpose other than just. Oh, that's nice. That's dope. Yeah, working. With purpose is. Is doing that and some of the kids that I teach at MRC shout out MRC, Colin Walley and everybody involved. That this is a very unique thing for a special group of kids that we were those kids and now we have the ability because we say it all the. Time like if. I had that if I had that now it's like it's our job to teach them. You have that and we go from.
Yeah. Oh, yeah.
Yeah, well.
If they answer, I hope they answered their question.
It it does. I mean I first of all resonates with me that your father, I think sometimes, at least when my kids weren't teenagers. And they told me how. Bad of a job I'm doing when? They were young. I felt like. I felt like being a father was the was like my mission, you know? It was it was. It really was. And being a good dad, what meant? You know it. It took on a lot of responsibility and it's it. It dovetailed so nicely with teaching guitar and teaching. I've I've taught foreign languages. I've, I've taught obviously law and and business and music business. But you know when you're teaching from a place of love and you're and you're trying to. Not because you want to get, but because you want to raise these kids up, right? You want them to be able to fly and do something. I mean that. That became my purpose, you know, did addition to, you know, paying the bills to to feed them. But. But you know it it speaks to using maximizing your skills and talents. In the service of others of your community, of the of the future generations. And I often think about this, you know what I I used to lead a 10 piece. Half of the band were All Stars from school of Rock. The other half were CMU, University of Cincinnati College Conservatory of Music folks, and the the fact is, I was the oldest member by far of the band, but it was the best, most talented band I've been a part of. Pound for pound, I mean, everybody was just unbelievably talented and my role was like, OK. Now you have. All of this. What do you do with it? And that has led into, you know, this, this podcast and this, this course that I'm pulling together and and all the things that that I'm doing in my professional life are really OK. So you can go home and learn a song on YouTube like that. I had to go listen to the record and wear out the grooves or I had to play the tape over and over again or worse than that. I had to go take a cassette recorder. Wait for it to play on. The radio capture it. You know and then. Listen to it and wear. It out and learn this learn.
The struggle is real.
So you got it.
You know not to say that they have it easy cause they don't. They have a lot of other challenges and and the Internet is sort of a double edged sword. They're they're presented with all the information all at once. And it's harder and harder to cut through the noise. There's just so much content that's created every single day. But it's my hope that guys like you and me can point the way to to a path of of less resistance for those who are coming up. In our wake, you know. I mean, for me, truthfully, the audience of this podcast is me at 19. You know, when I thought I had the world, I thought I knew everything, but I really didn't know everything. There was so much that I still needed to know and. And so the course, the, the everything that I'm doing professionally right now is really geared towards that. Young up and coming. Musician who's got maybe the world at their fingertips and all the wealth of the world's knowledge right there on their phone. What do they do with it? So I'm trying to teach people to write a plan. You know, think about things in the long term, which it's great. You mentioned thinking about things from the long term perspective of you know royalties that can that can pay for your children, generational wealth. And I don't think that there's enough musicians and composers folks in the in the creative aspect of it that think. That way and think long term and think about it in terms of business and planning and legal and logistics. All of that sort of stuff. And I mentioned this in my in one of the earlier episodes of this podcast where I think when you're trained as a musician or you've spent all these years honing your craft, you kind of get yourself in a habit of thinking. That this is just for my development instead of for my bank account. You know, you spend so much time in the practice room or so much time learning an instrument that you forget that. You've gotta go out. And gig with it in order to get someone to pay you or you know, you've got to record the record and you've got to distribute it, and you've got to distribute it as widely as you can. And there's a lot of talk about how major labels don't go that route. I'm. I'm kind of with you on that. And I'm I'm with with the independents for sure because. They're my clients, but I will say. That, as you said, if you want to be famous, I mean, you might have to jump on somebody else's rocket ship in order to get there, and they spend a lot of money building that rocket ship. Yeah. And maybe you don't have the assets to build that rocket ship, but maybe that rocket ship is the right path for your career, as long as you do it in a safe and and legal and. Protected way and I think. When things go wrong, you see the the Taylor Swift situation where. She wasn't happy with what happened with her masters, and so she went and recorded them all. Not every artist has the luxury of being able to do that. But I guess we can talk a little. Bit about your. Career and and obstacles in your career. Have you faced anything like that where you've had to rerecord something or or maybe in those early days when you were going to the studio and you were just doing, you know, for 25 bucks recording some keys on somebody's somebody's track, did you ever face a situation where you thought? Man, I should have signed a contract that gave me some kind of. Royalty or some additional revenue stream or some ownership of the project or you know tell me about that. Tell me about your struggles, because I I know there's folks out here who love everything you've done. But now tell me where it got hard for. You and how? You got through that.
I heard something from you. I don't know if you remember. If you told everybody this or just me. This finding the cross section between passion and profit or passion and professionalism. I've reflected on that quite a bit. That's one for two going to. Full sail becoming a composer. Reflected me back to my days in healthcare, where I was in service when I started looking at being a musician, as being in service of the people and projects. It really changed my perspective on it before I had that perspective to where it was, like you said, honing the craft. This is for me. This is for how this makes me feel in a very selfish mindset, almost when it came to especially expanding my network. That changed a lot, so learning you actually being in service of this thing rather than being service of yourself before I had that, it was a lot of. Look at me. Look at me. Look at me. Which is a common thing for people who I didn't know how to present in a way that was not sales, Manish, like telemarketer, kind of kind of deal. And I had to learn that of this is about the project. This is about being in service of. Where it's going to end up in the people that it's going to affect in the meantime. I counted between 2019 and 2020 before the blip happened. I had 68 rejection letters from various music libraries from various music supervisors, from you name it. My first break. For professional work came from a dog shelter in Florida who is doing a donation. A adoption campaign completely free. A friend of mine was doing the visuals for it, taking the pictures and videos of the dogs, and she said we need music. Can you do the music? And I said sure. I need professional work. And learning from that experience that went on for probably almost a year, they had a ton of music for these dogs and it was fun. I mean, they had specific criteria that they wanted for each one to sell the story or tell the story. And that was one that broke the ice. However, over the years, the rejections kept coming. And I put them in a fireplace. Of passion. I put them in. This thing that it kindled. The work still being done because I. Took those noses. I end up getting some. Not right now. I got a lot of not. Right. Now and I used that to follow up with them and say, what could I have done differently or? Or we're just, are we just not compatible from what you heard from me, from what you saw, you know this is going to be a relationship. So treating it as such like these relationships, I had to learn how to curate those relationships more than anything else and not worry about the work and the downfalls will come. It's going to happen. That's life, we're human. It's going to happen. There's been. A ton of. Adversity faced there's been a ton of missed opportunities. I was. You know, at Guitar Center and I was like, I should have gotten paperwork because I end up hearing some of that work later on or what, you know, tend to be it could have been my work. It could have not been because you could have had somebody else replay what I played. I wasn't that fancy it. Was just one of those things and. Don't get discouraged by that. If those nose turn you off to it. Reflect pivot to what you really want to. Do because those nodes never bothered me. But it was. I wanted to get less and less of them. It started off with all Nos. And then out of 10 it was 8 and then it was 6 and then it was 3. And then I stopped getting. Then I'm. Like 3 or four knows. You know, for every 10 opportunities that I go after now and it took time, it took perseverance. It just took the work and always ask somebody you know. What's different? What what could happen next time? What would make this more successful? Because in my my opinion that person is just like your audience, right? We're not. We're not going to please everybody with every song. That one single is going to resonate with a group of people. And you find one person out of that group and you get as much information from them as possible about what resonated with them with that group. So if you treat your business constituents and opportunities like that well with your nose well. What does this group like? What does this group need? Because we're on the service again, you're not going to sell me gas. When I got a full. Tank of gas. Just I don't need it right now, so treating these things as that, we're dealing with personal demons at the same time, insecurities and. Questioning if you really should be doing it when you're not making any money doing it and you're driving lift and door dash to make the ends meet, but you're still plugging away at it at night. It's one of those things that. It's a test. Of character almost. And when you get to the other. Side of learning where. You're potentially is. That's a plateau that you hit. You coach there, you learn more, you level up and you continue to where your your. To be happy. So for me the adversity was we're all like. Speed bumps in the road, but knowing where I came from and how far I've come, I didn't think I had hit my apex yet. I knew I could go further just by getting the information from those people. You know, if you want to shoot, you want to make more free throws you. Gotta shoot more free throws, yeah. You proper form for different things is what? Is being in service what is needed at that time if we don't need a shooter, we don't need a shooter if we don't need a QB, we don't need a QB. If we don't need a center, we don't need a center we have. These things already fined. The communities as to where you fit and you're going to service that community, that's how you create longevity and any creative aspect of being a professional that's I think. And yeah, my adversity was a lot. I just. I didn't dwell on it. I tried to learn from it and say, you know, specifically to those people. When you get to know, ask why. You 9 times out of 10, you're not gonna get a response. That one could be the key that you needed to make it. Less and less nose.
You know, I love everything you just said. I love how you said you got a lot of not right now, which I think in the sink world is is pretty common. I mean, if you get a, if you get an outright no. It it's usually and not right now it's just phrased as a no, but I wanted to point out and this is just sort of leapfrogging off of what you're saying here. So as you, as you just said, sometimes that when you ask why and you get a response back, that could be the key. I'm currently listening to an audio book. By Chris Voss, who the book is called Never Split the difference and it's on negotiation and he was of an FBI hostage negotiator. He teaches courses on negotiation. He's on master class. He's on YouTube. He's all over the. Place really brilliant guy, but part of the chapter on you know, it's sort of like there used to be a book called getting to yes. Well, there's for him. Like, no. Is the start of the negotiation. And So what you just said there reinforces that that when someone says no and you say, well, what could I have done differently? First of all, you're right. Just proper form and and and it may just be a not right now. Kind of a thing. That, but you can learn from that. When they do give you some feedback and that could be the spark that turns into a whole new relationship. And I think if I'm hearing you correctly and and from what I've gathered over the years. It only takes a few key relationships that can really change the game. So you kind of have to be out there consistently networking or consistently pitching for sync in order to get to that next level because you never know a friendship, a relationship that you developed could turn into the rest of your life and could be. Really, the game changer that your career needed or that you needed personally?
Yeah, one of one of my. Clueless relationships, another gearhead. Shout out John to mayor. I've talked about him a couple. Times he helped facilitate one of my biggest. Achievements which is creating music in an entire soundtrack like for a video game for Facebook. I can't say specifically what it is. It's not out yet, but just know like. My relationship with him, he dug my music. We talk synthesizers a lot. Like just. Back and forth and he called me up one day, he said I got an opportunity that may fit you. I heard some stuff from you that I liked already. I like your vibe, you know, here's what we're doing at Facebook. What do you think about this? And I'm like, yes, please. May I have another and? It I never went after that relationship like I'm gonna get anything after him. He was just another gear head like I was and we enjoyed each other's company and he respected my work and liked it. And we went forward and I created opportunities from that for several of my personal friends. You know, who we've been working together for years. And I'm like one day I'm gonna make that. Don't call guys, and we're going to, we're going to get some, we're going to do something really special. And we did that special thing. It took a really long time. It was a. Lot of work. But it was a lot of fun and you guys will be hearing about it hopefully soon 2024.
That is killer.
That again, those relationships and taking that originally I got a note from John originally and I. Was like, oh, that's cool. That's. But you do have the synthesizer. I want to get. Like, what do you think about that? Should I spend my and that developed into a thing? And I I never went after it like that. But he was a really, really cool dude and helped me. Get the probably what's going to be to date, not the biggest of my career, but to date is probably the biggest opportunity and we had a ball doing it so. And I learned a lot from listening to. You as well like about, you know, the negotiations so. To speak the the. Kindling of the fire that you want to keep burning in, and whom? Whomever you know. Friend of mine shout out Mark Gilmore, amazing sound designer for Call of Duty games and a bunch of different stuff like credits go on and on and on. He says make friends. The work will come. I never forgot it from when he first told me that and I was. Like, alright, that's cool. And that's what's gonna happen. I've been making friends, and the work is getting done and we we enjoy doing it.
That's awesome. I love that. I love to hear that. That is just reinforces so many things that I truly believe about this, this business. And you know as we as we go into the future. You know, the challenge is I I really do believe that it's it's hard to be a creator in today's. World because there is so much content, it's harder and easier. It's a double edged sword, you know. You can create something in your bedroom and you can put it on YouTube tonight, but it might not get heard ever, because there's just billions of pieces of content on on YouTube right now, so. I guess this leads me into. First of all I I love that the relationship building is is so fundamental. It's so cornerstone to the development of your career but but also it enriches life and it kind of goes with that that back to what you originally said where you heard Master Blaster and. You're like, whatever. That feeling that I'm getting right now. That's what I wanna. Give to the world I wanna that's. What I wanna do? And that I mean that's the. Thread that runs through all of this. But it it is about the relationships and it's the relationships not with your friends and your fans and your colleagues, professionally and personally that I think create the career, the work will come. It's it's neat to hear it all woven in your story like that. But I I. Can't get away from the fact that there are billions of pieces of content. Out there every day and and it is a challenging career and I guess I'm going to ask you what I ask everybody, if you had a magic wand or if you had the power to change anything about the music business, what would it be and what why?
I would encourage the industry. Mary, what we felt about physical product. With the ones you're streaming. I feel like I missed the days where I could go to the store and buy a CD or tape go out to the car. Pop it and. Unwrap it, you know, read the credits, right? Like you. You gotta go hunting. We would read the credits while the album is playing. You want to know who's on there and so forth. You want to go pick your buddy up? Hey, I just got this album. I didn't get a chance. To get it like. I think there's a niche market for. Music that the underground scene that like the punk scene. Is huge for that, like they're still pressing vinyl and they're still being played in different places. I think I would like to see that more mainstream, so direct to artists could. Survive more financially and get more exposure. You hit the nail on the head like it's it's a double edged sword. It is very easy to get the exposure. However the there's more fish in the pond now, so the chances of you being on the north side of the pond, swimming and somebody's walking on. On the South side of the. Mine they they're not going to see you for a while. And if another fish catches their attention on the east side as they're walking around, you know, it even takes even longer for them to to find your content, which your content may be perfect for them or you feel like it. May be perfect for them. So for me, I would like to see.
Right.
Physical product, I understand it. Uh, come back and have people. Take pride in that ownership. It's like making a cup of tea, right? Like you have to wait for the tea. Bag it it. It will not be tea until the tea bag releases the tea into the water. That. That's my my my magic wand wish. Question is like I would like to see physical. Demand and want from people to come back to, to have these personal experiences because having one offs is one thing versus. UM. We had it to where? You know, if you had a record that was you didn't see since 77, that was still sealed in the package. It was like the Mona Lisa for you, right? It's. Like I know what's on this because I have one that's open, but this one's not open. They don't get that same experience because as soon as it hits online, it's available to everybody. There's no exclusivity. There's nothing special. The music is special, don't get me wrong, but having this and have. You know, even in the independent space it's. It's something special about not everybody having access to it, to my that's my opinion. I everybody may not feel like that, but if we can create that again for the for the communities and and help and some of that helps. Increase or replace the devaluing of music now because it's so readily available, I think that exclusivity, which is what they're doing with NFT's and whatnot, right, we can. That's a whole nother thing, but the exclusivity of that helps it retain the value like a work of art, because what we do or is we're creating works of art.
I I happen to really love vinyl and I do try to collect vinyl for every one of every one of my clients that actually put presses a vinyl and make sure that I that I get one and then I get it signed. I I really. Really resonated with what? You said there because I thought instantly when you were talking about unwrapping something. Now when I was when I was growing up, vinyl was out there, obviously. But. But you know what? I actually played as a as a young teenager were cassettes and I can actually remember the smell. Of the cellophane and the and like pulling it out of the bin and and having them having to open it up, get it out of the big plastic security thing that they had and then taking it out to the car and the the cellophane. And when you ripped it open, like hearing the creak of the plastic as it opened, and then you.
Ohh yeah.
The cassette out and then you sometimes you get to unfold like the the little cassette the the the wrapper. I don't know. Yeah the and. And they were like then you get to read the lyrics and they're like on this, you know.
The trifold.
Piece of paper this big.
And you're going.
To go through it. All but it it just.
It had like a fresh press. You know, smell to it and and you're listening to it, usually in a car or, you know, on a boom box and and you. Just there was there. Was a visceral content that when you started talking about it, just came flooding back to me. I hadn't thought about in such a long time, and I really do. I really respect that, I think. That having that kind of collectible experience and physical product experience is a way to create some exclusivity and to create a pathway and maybe for some of you artists who are out there listening, think about that in terms of your merchandising. Because people do want something tangible, obviously they come to support you at your shows or or they may. They may click like or something on your Facebook page or your Instagram, but you know liking and following and subscribing and all that stuff. Although we want you to do that with this podcast and everybody. It's not the same. Is having, you know, shaking someone's hand or or being there at the merch table and talking to them, or buying their physical product, knowing you might not ever get to meet them, but maybe one day you know you you get to meet your hero and they say. And your your album or your cassette or your T-shirt or whatever, it creates a different fan experience and I think. It creates a different relationship if you will having something tangible, uh, to take with you. So for those of you out there thinking about it, you know, vinyl is still a thing, they are still pressing. You can find ways to do short runs of vinyl and I would encourage people to do that. It's it is. Yes, it's destroyable in a way that you, you know, the streams are not, you can wear out a vinyl, you can leave a vinyl in the hot sun and you can ruin it. And I know I've. Been there. But there's something magical about that experience. Yeah. Ohh yeah. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. So.
Trunk of the car? Yes.
I I think. That's fascinating. It goes actually very well with the question. If you had a magic wand because it is a magical experience, it really is.
It it is, man, every time like I'll never forget. Here. Here's here's my magic moment, right. I had. Saved up my little money. Overtime we had moved to the South side of Chicago's. I was fairly young. There was this store. There was like 2 blocks away from me. That was a little bodega type of store, right, like deli sandwiches and just a little corner store type of thing. And they sold tapes in there. Like that had came out and that was the closest place that I could walk to cause, you know, I was really, really young and I couldn't go anywhere to get. Anything. And I I heard. I saw Tupac like Tupac lips now and I remember gathering my little chains. It was like $3.80. It was like nothing. This place was selling like tapes that, had it been opened already. And I get my tape and I'm like, I know my mom's not. Going to let me listen to this. So I'm just gonna play when she's not home. I'm gonna hide the cassette in my pillowcase. I remember I couldn't wait till I got home and I didn't have a Walkman or anything on me, right? I had a dual cassette deck of morant's big silver thing, you know.
At home, right that I that.
My only way to have tapes and pre cell phone and and all of this stuff. I walked out of the store and I was like using a pen to open the top of the the plastic because I couldn't tear it open. Not. And you pull it apart and I slipped it in and I put the tape in my pocket and I read the J card all.
The way home so.
Ohh yeah.
I knew like all the credits, the names of the songs and whatnot, cause contrary to popular belief, kids, the tape doesn't tell you what song is playing.
You just have to know. What song is playing right? There's no screen saying this is a song that's going right now, so you know, unlike like.
Radio and whatnot, but. I remember, you know, memorizing that before I got home. So when I got a chance to play it, I put my headphones on. Cause Mom couldn't hear it, and I knew she couldn't hear it. It was like my first tape recursing on it. And pop it in and I'm just like, wow, just at this time and. Creating that in some form of fashion, it started with video games to where all video games started becoming, you know, digital download and we didn't stand in line anymore at midnight to get the new Call of Duty or Halo. And it's the line started at 8:00 and it's around the block at the mall. And you're got to wait till midnight for the store to open up anyway. But these created. Experiences and I'm not demeaning the experiences that they have nowadays on the Friday music release for, you know, all streaming but these.
Yeah, it really did, yeah.
I want my kids and some younger people to have that experience and be able to resonate like you and me are doing right now. You had that moment for you had that moment for and, but it it it creates this connection. You know what I'm talking about because you you lived that experience.
Yeah, absolutely. You know, waiting in line reminds me of waiting in line, waiting in line. Reminds me of waiting in line for tickets. There was a Ticketmaster outlet at the Beechmont Mall. And.
It's a great question, by the way.
It was this sort of back. Back alley kind of place where you'd have to wait and and people would sit there like all night long and wait for the, you know, whatever it was 9:00 AM or 10:00 AM release when they could actually start printing tickets. And I remember going on several occasions waiting in line for concert ticket. It's, you know, with people obviously of like mine they they wanted to be at the same show and we were there sharing this experience of waiting out in the cold all night long, waiting for them to open the door to get in, to get these concert tickets. And you can still maybe do occasional concert ticket waiting, I know. The Taylor Swift fans had their their challenges this summer, but it's not like it was. It's not the same as it's like sitting there, so it's an experience, a shared experience. I do, I will say. On the plus side of of Taylor Swift, there were people who were waiting in line in Cincinnati a mile. It was like a mile long. Where they were waiting for the merch, not even the show or the ticket. They were just waiting in the merch line when her trailers rolled in couple days before the show. That was that was impressive. I mean, I had a friend who works as a lawyer downtown, and she could see from her window looking down and the line stretched all the way from, like Paycor Stadium all the way down around the Underground Railroad Freedom Center.
Long and kept going. Get it?
This line was just like snaked all around downtown from people just waiting in line for the experience, and I gotta give the tailor for bringing back a lot. Of a lot of magic to to the music and the music business, and standing up for artists and doing it her own way. And there's a lot to love there. So even if that's not your genre, you gotta look at people who are doing things in a good, positive, healthy, successful way. And I think she's, I think. She's a model for. A lot of things in this business, certainly fairness and artist rights and and that sort of stuff, but getting back to our our experience. Would you say that? Uh, today's kids, uh. You know, they don't have the cassettes. They don't have necessarily as much vinyl. But what? What are things that you see? Because you deal with young people in, in music, what are some of the things that they are doing right and and what are some of the things that you love about what's coming up? In the future.
They're fearless in their creativity. I don't fault them for not having the same previous acumen expertise as we do in in previous years of music. However, it doesn't. Keep them on the hamster wheel, so to speak. They can create stuff that they've never heard before, and then we get to tell them, hey, this sounds. Like this? Ohh wow. It does. That means it sounds good. It means that if this was the number one hit from, you know Michael Jackson or Prince or something, and your music reminds me of that, that means you carry the same spirit of musicianship and care as to what you did. And even without knowing it. I think a misconception, a personal flaw of mine, is that I thought they had to know it. In order to achieve it, but it's I guess it's the spirit and energy of creativity that allows some of them to reach those heights at an early point, and they're not apologizing for it. They want us to come in and accept their way of doing some of this stuff. And all I want to do sincerely is put the. You know, I wanna put the icing on the honey bun. I wanna put the the candles on the cake. I don't want to mold you to sound like me. I don't want you to mold you to sound like you know what we did in the 70s, right? It's it. There's a we're all using the same 12 notes. However, the rhythmic patterns and different things that they're doing is. UM. I didn't think I would see that out of some of them. And once I got out of. My own way of. The traditional way of teaching, you know, like, if you teach guitar or piano, all you have to learn it this way. But if they're getting the same results in their way. Let me see. What your way has to offer? Maybe it'll help me down the line to continue to do. What I'm doing and. I think there's UM. There is a. A uniqueness to that, a specialty to that that once they hone the things that they don't know. And match it with that instead of fighting it, we're going to see another boom in several genres of music in the independent space that we haven't seen in a long time. So I'm excited about that. And I think that they have that and and they have community as well. You know, I I I feel like social media and so forth is creating communities for artists that where they can thrive. Twitch is a very good place for that. I see it all the time. I'm a part of several music groups and collaborate, collaborative efforts on communities on Twitch and Discord and so forth. So having access. To like minded people that you could stand in. Line with for a concert. That you can't because you're not in the same city. But hey, they're coming to your city next month. They're in my city this week, we'll talk about the show after they have the show at your place. You know, in in your city. I think that's something that's really unique with technology and and how we've developed as humans in society in space. That's. I'm looking forward to seeing what's next.
That's awesome. That's awesome. That really is an optimistic worldview and I love it. It it, it resonates with me. I think that. And I I heard one of my mentors, Kathy Heller, who's got a great podcast. I think she said this, that one of the key elements of resilience is optimism and. You know people who have. By and large, all the people who you would say all that person really has persevered and has grit, they have fortitude to them to overcome things that it's based and rooted in optimism. And so it's it's not, it's not that empathy or optimism is soft or mushy, it's actually a fundamental strength to look at the. World and and look at how. So the communities can develop online and how we can be closer together. It's looking at the bright side and and I love that. I think that's amazing. I think that that leads me to to ask, you know, you talked about the the external world and and the future and the young. Folks, but what about for you personally? What's next for you? I know you told me before we started that you're going to be doing some live performances. And I I want to hear about that. Tell me about what's next for you. Personally and professionally.
Personally, continue to be a good father and husband. However, that may look. I got one teenager. I got two preteens that's heading into teenagers. Yeah, I'm not already feeling the pressure. Please send wine. It doesn't really matter what kind. We'll need more as time goes on.
The struggle is real.
That that's first and foremost the professional aspect of it is honestly chasing more placements, helping other people get placements. Their first ones I love hearing about people's first. And utilizing the technology that can benefit the Community creative community, if we stand guilded together, bonded together to create almost like a Union, so to speak for. The algorithm to not be our downfall. That makes sense.
Yeah, it makes total sense, yeah.
And and. Yeah, they're they're still strength in numbers. You know, it's still ruled by the people wherever the people go. We saw the shift from Facebook to Instagram to Vine. Tying to TikTok to X to you know, wherever the people are is where they wanna go. You know where they want to be, because that's where everything revolves around and professionally. I want to continue to do that. Yeah, just whatever that looks like. I do have a few. I want to get. You know my bucket list things out of the way. Heading into season four of my podcast. Test I want to do music for a 2K video game. I know a couple of people over there that are hopefully that that'll work out sometime soon and the rest is to help my friends win. I'm I'm really into. I'm really that guy. Like, I really want to see my friends get exposed to the things I've been exposed to that they didn't know exist or they know exist now and facilitate them. Creating some things that they can, they can have trophies on their shelves as well. Because you can't take it with us. The rest is just like, let's enjoy it. Let's let's treat each other. Right. Let's do. Right by each. Other let's let's learn as much as we can together and. The things we can't control. We can't control them, but the things we can, let's do that, you know. And in the most positive way possible, that's.
I love that that's really what this music business mentorship is all about. Is is seeing other folks win and as someone who just got his first placement this year, I'm I'm on. I'm on the same boat with you. I want to place more music, but I I wanted to mention you do have a show coming up at Treasure Tronics, which I just love the name of that. It's a synth shop. Cincinnati. OH, tell us how you got involved with treasure tronics. Tell us what you're going to a little bit of overview of what you're going to do, because it's just it's magical that whole, that whole vibe essence. Named Treasure Tronics seems really cool, so shout out to them, but you do online performance there.
Yeah, shout out to. John Harding owns treasure Tronics, another gearhead who opened a synth consignment shop. It's almost like a so to speak. It's like a goodwill right for synthesizers and whatnot. You can bring stuff in. You can sell stuff there they have perform. This is. He's a dealer for a few different companies that are out there. He's a repair man. So if you got some stuff that's broken, he can take a look at it, fix it for you. He did that for me when we first met on some tape decks and whatnot. That was great. And he started having shows at the at the shop. He'd do monthly synth jam first Friday of the month. Where a bunch of the sense nerves get together. And they just. Play out and now it's evolved into this thing where Tim Kaiser performed there twice and.
Excuse me.
He's a cool dude. He makes his own instruments, makes a lot of cool noises and sounds and stuff, and he started to do individual shows, so he asked me, you know, if I do what I do on Twitch, which is live improv music, so to speak, right. We start with the theme for the night. And we played whatever comes out. Whatever. Happens. Happens. I answer questions along the way, right. If you want to know about a particular sense or cables or modulation or. Techniques or anything that I'm using, I try to teach that and use that as I'm learning it because I'm still a newbie. I'm still green. I'm like a sophomore in the synth world of modular, especially building 1 from scratch like this one. Create audio. I built that from scratch, love it to death is what I'm going to be using next week, but in particular. What I'm going to be doing is a a genre called mod map. And started by Corey Banks, he owns a company called My Bat modular. They make modules and it's a very hip hop esque thing that's hasn't been seen in the modular world before and I fell. In love with. It shout out Mr. Dibbs for getting me hooked on modular stuff and Cory Banks for providing the modules that they do. So go check them out. Two good friends of mine at this point. And it's hip hop. Mixed in a way where you get like, imagine the Star Wars Cantina. If you put Wu Tang in the room.
Nice. I love it. I it's.
That's what it it's going to sound like I'm not plugging, but y'all can check me out on band camp. Mr. Wyatt? Band camp. I got the last album that I put out off the grid is out there. It's a modular album. I love meditative music. So part of it is like this meditative thing. Yoga music. Music. And then we sprinkle a lot of boom BAP drums, reversing stuff crazy, weird sounds made with electricity that you can then sample and manipulate again. And the thing that makes it so special to me, more so than anything else, is like we have splice, we have loop cloud, we have all these things where everybody has. Access to the same record pool, right? They're using the same loops, and they're using the same stuff. Well, modular allows you to create your own thing from scratch, from voltage from like zero negative, you know 5 volts all the way up to 12, and nobody else is going to sound like me because I'm creating these sounds from voltage. And you don't know where it's coming from, so it's A and it's a relationship with the machines, cause the machines have a mind of their. Own as well. Like people know. Mood is the most famous, you know, modular sense. Company out there, shout out Bob Moog, RIP. The people that got hooked on that are the same people that are here doing my BAP and other things like that. So no two improv modular artist golden shrimp. Gill is the Guild that I'm joining on Twitch, the biggest group on there, and everybody sounds different and it's a wonderful thing. So it takes me back to the day. Is when. Like we were talking about, everybody sounded very, very unique. Like people put Black Sabbath up against deep purple all the time because they're around to say they they sounded extremely different, but they were, they still sounded enough to where you could put song after song on the same mix tape and it would still feel, you know. Nothing fell out of place. So for me, professionally exploring more modular life, since jams to get people out and exposed to that some more healing music. Through music therapy and other things that I've planning for my company vision health. That will be coming up. I'll be making announcements about that in 2024, later 2024. Some things I'm building and working on. Wherever the river is going to take me at this point and I'm joining the music business mentorship program, which I think everybody listening should do, OK, get with John. I don't know if you gonna make this first class. I'm trying to make this first class to get it out the way so we can help everybody on the business aspect of what we're doing as creatives. I'm not saying that because he's my friend. I'm saying that cause he's my friend and he knows what he's talking about.
Well, that's.
Honestly, he's filled in so many blanks for me and just strategic specific questions that I had through his own personal experience. He's lent his tutelage and information and advice to me so far, and you would not believe how many situations this has helped in in this short period of time because I was able to. Grasp the information, apply it to things that I had been working on already that hit a wall until I had the information and it got me over the wall. So shout out to John for that here. I know this is his show, but however, like my God.
Thank there.
You kind of stuck with me at.
This point so.
Yeah. Oh, I'm so happy. I don't know if you could tell, but I was grinning ear to ear because I'm so into this, this modular. Mod bap is that yeah. Yeah, that's. That is to me, just a whole new world, a whole new genre that I'm super excited to get into. You just opened up a whole new door of music for me. I'm going to go on Twitch when we get off here, I'm going to look at golden shrimp. I'm going to come to your tech treasure tronics show. I mean, I'm. I'm super into all this. It's it's. I I love it. I love discovering new things. Really, really pumps me up and it just. Gets back to that. Whole optimism thing, there's. There's just a never ending sea of new creativity that's coming our way, and I love. I love it. I love being a part of it. I want to see it and experience it and do it first hand. And I'm so blessed to have you on this show and I'm so blessed to know you. So thank you very much for lending your time and your talents to us here at the music business mentorship. And everything that you're doing, I I've I've got a shout out to the MRC Music Resource Center Cincinnati where you are an instructor shout out to Xavier University where you are also an instructor. Just all the things you're doing, man to bring, bring music and creativity and and overcome obstacles for the folks who are coming up behind us. I I, I my hat is off to you, Sir. Thank you very much. And yeah I it's it's a true pleasure and honor to have you.
Thanks for having me.
And for all of you who are listening, please tune in next time we've got another great show coming up. As we keep rolling these things out, we hope there's lots of golden Nuggets, but definitely check out Mr. Watt. Check out Vision House Studios, check out everything he's a part of and then join us back here next time for another edition of the music business mentorship.
